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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:19 am 
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I don't know if he would have hit 25+HRs, but I think surely he would have been able to muster a .230 average, which is actually pretty poor.

My guess is the thought process is that with Pena the ceiling is much higher. I could see him hitting 35 HRs at Wrigley. I could also see him hitting .210 to go along with those longballs though.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:19 am 
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I think we're burying the lead here. Hendry signed someone to a ONE YEAR CONTRACT!!! Although, we don't know if he has a full no-trade, or only partial. I really like this signing. Based on what was available. I'll take Pena for ten over Berkman for eight.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:23 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
My guess is the thought process is that with Pena the ceiling is much higher. I could see him hitting 35 HRs at Wrigley.



This is spot on. I'd bet he hits somewhere in the .240-.250 this range this year assuming he doesn't repeat his horrendously low babip.

I can see where Keyser is going though that this team isn't going to win unless we get career years out of multiple players. Feels like a Jim still trying to save his job kind of signing instead of going young/rebuilding

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:29 am 
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I don't think he hits .250. Power numbers, possibly. HRs could be for sure, but not so sure about RBIs. I think he hits 230ish with a lot of solo HRs.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:36 am 
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Drop In wrote:
I think we're burying the lead here. Hendry signed someone to a ONE YEAR CONTRACT!!! Although, we don't know if he has a full no-trade, or only partial. I really like this signing. Based on what was available. I'll take Pena for ten over Berkman for eight.


This. One year deal will have Pena motivated. If the Cubs suck you can unload him to some team at the deadline. I don't think this is a game changer by any means but compared to LaDouche and Overbay I will take one year of Pena.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:45 am 
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Plus the biggest problem with the Cubs this year won't be the starting lineup it will be a terrible bullpen by anyone thats not Marmol and a lack of consistent starting pitching because the Big Dumbass will have another meltdown.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:48 am 
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Phil McCracken wrote:
Plus the biggest problem with the Cubs this year won't be the starting lineup it will be a terrible bullpen by anyone thats not Marmol and a lack of consistent starting pitching because the Big Dumbass will have another meltdown.


For sure. Curious to see how they handle guys like Cashner, Archer etc this year. I'm pretty sure they want to have Cashner in the starting rotation long term, but he might have to spend another year in the pen.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:49 am 
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They have to do something to keep the tv/radio ratings respectable so they settled for this guy. What it does say is that Hendry was unable to trade for someone who has the potential to be a long term keeper instead opting for a 10M 1 year stop gap. Are you going to tell me there isn't some young player(s) out there that they could have landed who might grow into a long term solution? This is a desperation signing pure and simple. I'd rather have seen them take a chance on Chris Davis from Texas then drop 10M on this guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:06 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Vitters at first.

He's not ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:06 am 
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cpguy wrote:
They have to do something to keep the tv/radio ratings respectable so they settled for this guy.


I have no idea how you think that Carlos Pena gets asses in the seats :?

cpguy wrote:
What it does say is that Hendry was unable to trade for someone who has the potential to be a long term keeper instead opting for a 10M 1 year stop gap.


We've been through this before - Hendry doesn't have a clue, a scouting department, or a plan, and he has high-priced contracts on shitty players that are immovable because of their no-trade clauses and the fact that no team wants their sorry asses


cpguy wrote:
This is a desperation signing pure and simple...


Again, are you excited by this move? Will the rest of the fans shell out money to just come and watch Carlos fucking Pena??


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:19 am 
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10 million for batting .194 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . Atleast its only one year.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Vitters at first.

He's not ready.


This is why it is a 1 year deal.


Vitters will be playing a mediocre 3B for the Cubs once the Aram deal comes off the books.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:22 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Vitters doesn't have the defense, and it looks like he will never have the defense. I know it is what he wants, but the Cubs organization was already having him play 1B in Arizona.


He's a Cubs prospect so he probably can't hit either. Somebody bring back David Kelton!

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:59 am 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
cpguy wrote:
They have to do something to keep the tv/radio ratings respectable so they settled for this guy.


I have no idea how you think that Carlos Pena gets asses in the seats :?

cpguy wrote:
What it does say is that Hendry was unable to trade for someone who has the potential to be a long term keeper instead opting for a 10M 1 year stop gap.


We've been through this before - Hendry doesn't have a clue, a scouting department, or a plan, and he has high-priced contracts on shitty players that are immovable because of their no-trade clauses and the fact that no team wants their sorry asses


cpguy wrote:
This is a desperation signing pure and simple...


Again, are you excited by this move? Will the rest of the fans shell out money to just come and watch Carlos fucking Pena??

Pena means they won't lose 90+ games and have lousy ratings. Short term thinking only for the bean counter Ricketts.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Don't expect him to be on this team past July 31. The better he plays...the better the prospects coming back will be.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:06 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
Pena means they won't lose 90+ games and have lousy ratings. Short term thinking only for the bean counter Ricketts.


I'm not really sold on Pena being a difference-maker whatsoever, I hope that he doesn't disappoint you, though. And the club has been thinking short-term the past few years by throwing alot of money at bigger names, at guys that are intended to make a bigger splash in terms of marquee value. The fact that I was trying to point out is that I'm very confident that there were better options out there; Hendry still sucks, scouting still sucks, and I think that it's somewhat laughable to entertain the notion that the fanbase sees this as a big signing that will translate into wins...


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:07 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Don't expect him to be on this team past July 31. The better he plays...the better the prospects coming back will be.

You won't get much beacuse he'll be a free agent after the season but point taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:07 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Don't expect him to be on this team past July 31. The better he plays...the better the prospects coming back will be.


We can only hope, but are you really confident in the possibility of getting quality yutes in return?? My money's not on Hendry...


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:10 pm 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
and I think that it's somewhat laughable to entertain the notion that the fanbase sees this as a big signing that will translate into wins...


I don't think I have seen any rational person espousing such a claim. And who was going to be better at 1st base for the Cubs to acquire this year? I would rather have Pena on a one year contract then a 3 year deal for someone like Konerko. It is about time that Hendry stopped giving out long term deals and is just working to field a team while they try to develop some minor league talent. Obviously Hendry is not a good GM and I would like him to be fired but this wasn't a bad move. It wasn't a great move. It is a filler for 1 year and then like UMN said maybe get some prospects back if you are wallowing in 4th place at the deadline.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:11 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
cpguy wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Don't expect him to be on this team past July 31. The better he plays...the better the prospects coming back will be.

You won't get much beacuse he'll be a free agent after the season but point taken.


The term is 'rent-a-player'...a lot of teams actually look for those in July.


If we are at a point where we actually have to explain the concept of a deadline deal for a rent a player then wow.....

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:22 pm 
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duh. murton at first. unless u think he wants to stay in korea :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:50 pm 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
and I think that it's somewhat laughable to entertain the notion that the fanbase sees this as a big signing that will translate into wins...


Phil McCracken wrote:
I don't think I have seen any rational person espousing such a claim.


Agreed. :wink:

Phil McCracken wrote:
And who was going to be better at 1st base for the Cubs to acquire this year? I would rather have Pena on a one year contract then a 3 year deal for someone like Konerko.


I agree with this, as well - there is obvious less upside in giving big money and multiple years to an aging veteran, and I wouldn't advocate this in the state that the club is in right now. My belief is that, if we had competent scouting and development within the organization, we wouldn't have to throw 10 mil at someone who barely clears the Mendoza line (can I still use that term?) on a yearly basis. I want to be able to develop the kids and add arms, or a more talented position player, with that money. I guess that I'm just worried about the rebuilding process being in the wrong hands here...


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Phil McCracken wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Vitters doesn't have the defense, and it looks like he will never have the defense. I know it is what he wants, but the Cubs organization was already having him play 1B in Arizona.


He's a Cubs prospect so he probably can't hit either. Somebody bring back David Kelton!

Unless he's Casey McGehee, then he hits well for another team.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:29 pm 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
I guess that I'm just worried about the rebuilding process being in the wrong hands here...


Agree 100%. I do not trust Hendry to get a lunch order right let alone rebuild the Cubs in a fiscally responsible manner.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:45 pm 
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not only is $10 million for 1 year ridiculous

he is giving him $5 million of that up front next month before he ever even reports to spring training!!

once again, he has no leverage and is meek when dealing with the big boys

he is only good at fleecing the pirates and then bullying his own players once he has 'em under his control

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:48 pm 
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whistler wrote:
not only is $10 million for 1 year ridiculous

he is giving him $5 million of that up front next month before he ever even reports to spring training!!

once again, he has no leverage and is meek when dealing with the big boys

he is only good at fleecing the pirates and then bullying his own players once he has 'em under his control


:lol: You do realize that all of MLB contracts are guaranteed right you dopey ass mult

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:43 pm 
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yes i do...i realize he would get the money regardless

it's just the idea that Pena basically was able to force his hand to give him 5 million up front even before the Cubs Convention...I don't know, maybe that stuff happens with big names, but Pena?

just shows how scared Hendry was that he would lose him if he didnt give him that

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:17 pm 
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This is apparently what Hendry had to say today about Pena.

"Even if he hits .230 or .240 ... if he hits .240, that might take him to 40 Johnsons" :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:22 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
whistler...when is your first appearance at a remote coming?



why?

want me to show up?

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Pena????
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:20 pm 
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hackwilson's ribbies wrote:
cpguy wrote:
Pena means they won't lose 90+ games and have lousy ratings. Short term thinking only for the bean counter Ricketts.


I'm not really sold on Pena being a difference-maker whatsoever, I hope that he doesn't disappoint you, though. And the club has been thinking short-term the past few years by throwing alot of money at bigger names, at guys that are intended to make a bigger splash in terms of marquee value. The fact that I was trying to point out is that I'm very confident that there were better options out there; Hendry still sucks, scouting still sucks, and I think that it's somewhat laughable to entertain the notion that the fanbase sees this as a big signing that will translate into wins...


I agree there were better options out there. It is a joke that Hendry and the scouting staff weren't able to ID a young player and target him in a trade, instead opting for 10M to Pena. That said, their rationale is to get a guy that they can project out to 25 homers, 80+ RBI, etc. so the team at least isn't pushing 90 losses. Is this the right approach? Absolutely not, but such is the state of the Cubs (and bean counter Ricketts). His directive to Hendry is be mediocre in 2011 as opposed to potentially being horrendous by taking a chance on a young player acquired via trade.

Hopefully Tim Wilkens keeps the farm system moving in the right direction and that Hendry gets the axe once his contract expires along with the other dead weight he signed long term.


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