242 Complete games is ridiculous.

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@audioidkid

A quarter of which were shutouts.


I never knocked Jenkins. Jenkins is better but that still doesn't mean that Blyleven isn't a Hall of Famer. He deserves to be there regardless of what Gloppy thinks.

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I wasn't trying to knock Fergie, but was asking for a moment that cemented his HOF worthiness. If winning 20th game for the 6th time is it, then Blyleven's moment is finishing his 242nd complete game.

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Bartolo Colon is a 2 time all star who actually won a Cy Young. IS he a HOFer?

Freddie Garcia is a two time all star.

Wilbur Wood is a 3 time all star who won 20+ games 4 times, something that Blyleven never did.

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Do they have 260 complete games? 280 wins? A career ERA under 3.30?

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From USA Today...

Subject: Bert Blyleven, a right-hander who pitched 22 seasons for the Twins, Indians, California Angels, Pirates and Rangers. This is his 14th year of eligibility.

Case for: Blyleven has 3,701 career strikeouts (ranking him fifth all-time), 60 shutouts (ninth) and 242 complete games (91st). His shutout total is greater than that of eight Hall of Famers. According to FoxSportsNorth.com, since 1966, only Hall of Famers Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver have more shutouts than Blyleven. His win total was surely dragged down by pitching on some poor teams, however, his 287 wins, 13 short of the magic number of 300 long considered to gain a pitch automatic admission, ranks 27th all-time. All but six pitchers ahead of him in wins (Tommy John, Bobby Mathews, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux) are in the Hall of Fame. Glavine, Johnson, Maddux and Clemens aren't eligible for admission yet. Sports Illustrated's Joe Posnanski also found that Blyleven won more 1-0 games than any pitcher in the last 90 years. He also pitched on two World Series winners and was 5-1 with a 2.47 ERA in 47 1/3 career postseason innings.

Case against: The argument for Blyleven falls apart somewhat when you break down his career based on individual seasons. Perhaps the most damning statistics against him is that he only reached two All-Star Games (1973, 1985) at a position in which players are selected and not voted in. He also never finished higher than 13th in MVP voting. He won 20 games once (going 20-17 in 1973) and 19 or more twice. He never finished higher than third in Cy Young voting (which he did twice) and he finished higher than fifth in his league in wins once. He was in the top three in the league in ERA three times. Such a season-by-season take on Blyleven has prompted the argument that he doesn't have the "feel" of a Hall of Famer. To further that argument, overall, he's 287-250 in his career, ranking 452nd all-time in winning percentage (.534), and his 3.34 career ERA ranks 305th.

Sabermetrics say: Blyleven is 43rd in wins above replacement (WAR), which measures the number of wins a player added to the team above what replacement player would add. Among pitchers, Blyleven is 13th all-time in WAR. However, in ERA+, which is adjusted according to the ballpark(s) in which he pitched, Blyleven ranks 151st all-time.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Thursday:

Stan Mikita in studio at 9:20

Hopefully no fantasy football at noon.

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Sorry, Boyd. Fantasy is on the docket!!

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I thought you only called a Chicago born guy a "Chicago guy". When did Stan Mikita's birth move from Slovakia (or wherever the hell) to Chicago?

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Apparently when Mac decided it did.

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So would Mike Ditka not be a Chicago guy? I get what you are saying, but I think you can consider a guy like Mikita or COATCH to be "chicago guys"

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Didn't he pitch in a couple World Series?

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Don't take it personally.

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To be honest Frank, I'm a little turned off by the meatball idea of a "Chicago guy", be it Ditka, Mikita, etc. I think it's cool that guys who made their career here stick around and contribute to the community like a Ditka, Mikita, Payton, etc, but it doesn't go much further than that.

It may just be that I am numb to the idea of guys being here to do much more than just play a game, but I think that is due to the fact that I'm only 31, and I've grown up in an era where guys bounce around everywhere.

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Santo, too. I see your point.

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I like to find a match for a guy. Like I said, I'd compare Larry Walker to Chuck Klein.

In the case of Blyleven, I think his best comparison is Nolan Ryan. They were both guys who could dominate individual hitters, but overall weren't extraordinarily effective. Their dominating stuff- Nolan Ryan had arguably the best fastball in history and Blyleven the best curve- didn't translate into the kind of success that one might expect. And not because they played on bad teams.

Personally, if I needed a guy to make 33-34 starts over the course of a season to help my team win, I'd take guys like Jack Morris, Jimmy Key, or even Mark Buehrle instead of Ryan or Blyleven and I don't think those guys are Hall of Famers. But Blyleven and Ryan are special guys. They did things not a lot of guys could do or have done. I think they both belong in Cooperstown.

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Don't take it personally.

I love Mark Buehrle, but I'm not sure I would take him over any of the guys you mentioned.

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I consider Buehrle to be a more effective pitcher than Blyleven or Ryan. I wouldn't use the word "better" because that can mean many different things to many different people. Obviously, Buehlre couldn't blow hitters away like those guys. But he hits his spots and works out of trouble when he gets into it. I'd compare him to Catfish Hunter. Buehrle has a lot more to do to make the Hall of Fame and I'm not sure Hunter belongs there, but I'd take my chances with either of them.

I understand such a viewpoint might be considered wacky since Ryan was the hardest pitcher to hit in the history of the game and Buehrle is remarkably easy to hit- particularly for a guy of his caliber. But I think I can support my position pretty well.

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Don't take it personally.

I think if he throws another no-no/perfect game, given that he has a WS save and multiple All Star appearances, I think it might be hard to keep him out.

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I think he's a guy that would have been a lot more respected in the 50s, 60s, or 70s than he is today. SABRmetrics are slowly changing the way the game is viewed and it's finally beginning to reach even the hidebound writers of the BBWA.

For example, I doubt that we would have seen a Cy Young winner with a 13-12 record even five years ago. Not to get too far off track here. I know Hernandez pitched his ass off and played on a team that didn't score a whole hell of a lot, but to me, those are the breaks. We don't give a guy a batting title because he hit twenty screaming line drives and he got robbed by Gold Glove outfielders. Shit happens. Sometimes you're on the good end of it, sometimes you're not.

Anyway, all Buehrle does is pitch well enough for his team to win about 60% of the games he starts. I think a lot of guys would look at all the peripherals and tell you Javy Vazquez is really a better pitcher. I don't agree and I don't think you do either, but I'm not sure conventional wisdom is on our side here.

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Don't take it personally.

Buerhle is one of my favorite Sox players, but there is no way he comes close to the HOF.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Having seen both guys up close and personal a number of times, I will take Buehrle over small game Javy 10 times out of 10.

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That's probably right. But what if he wins 200+ games with a better than .560 percentage?

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Don't take it personally.

And if he throws another no hitter? He will also have at least 1 more WS ring from 2011 as well

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SOXXXXX!!!!

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@audioidkid

40 days or so before pitchers & catchers report to Spring Training. A warm thought from your SHARK on another cold January day in Chicago.

I consider you our friendly neighborhood SHARK

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Mark Buehrle is a 4 time all star. Two no hitters, one a perfect game. World Series winner.

If he gets 200 wins....if Blyleven gets in, Buehrle gets in

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Buerhle IMO is comparable to Mark Grace. A player who was really good for a long time, but just not HOF good.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."