I'll put money on GM stock hitting $33 before it hits $50.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

That could be. It seems to have been priced fairly at the open.

If it happens I see it being temporary and only a function of the fluctuations that most stocks go through. I think a long term investment will pay off.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I haven't driven an American car since my 1st ride....a 1986 Pontiac 6000, which was awesome. I've had a VW, a few Honda's and a Hyundai.

The steering went out in the Santa Fe and after a few weeks of researching.....I went with the 2005 Buick LeSabre.

Big car? Damn right...I'm almost 6'4" so it's nice to have some room to stretch out. And it rides and drives like a dream. Has 60000 miles and got it for a nice price.

I was nervous buying an American car but I'm very happy with it.

GM should have been allowed to fail, go through bankruptcy, restructure so as to rid itself of the things that brought about its demise. We were told this bailout was to save GM. Perhaps, in part it was, but as always, when the Federal Government is involved, things are not as they may seem. Nothing but crony-capitalism, bordering on fascism Italian style, at its finest.

Hey, Fascism Italian Style, that would make a catchy TV show. I can hear the theme song now...

Here is an excerpt, but read the whole thing HERE.


GM's union recovering after stock sale
Taxpayers and investors not as fortunate as UAW

By Patrice Hill

-

The Washington Times

General Motors Co.'s recent stock offering was staged to start paying back the government for its $50 billion bailout, but one group made out much better than the taxpayers or other investors: the company's union.

Thanks to a generous share of GM stock obtained in the company's 2009 bankruptcy settlement, the United Auto Workers is well on its way to recouping the billions of dollars GM owed it — putting it far ahead of taxpayers who have recouped only about 30 percent of their investment and further still ahead of investors in the old GM who have received nothing.

The boon for the union fits the pattern established when the White House pushed GM into bankruptcy and steered it through the courts in a way that consistently put the interests of the union ahead of many suppliers, dealers and investors — stakeholders that ordinarily would have fared as well or better under the bankruptcy laws.

"Priority one was serving the interests of the UAW" when the White House's auto task force engineered the bankruptcy, said Glenn Reynolds, an analyst at CreditSights. The stock offering served to show once again how the White House has handsomely rewarded its political allies, he said.

The union's health care and pension trust fund earned $3.4 billion through the sale of one-third of its shares in GM last week. Analysts estimate that it would break even if it sells the remaining two-thirds of its shares at an average price of $36 — close to where the stock traded shortly after the offering hit the market. GM shares closed at $33.45 on Wednesday.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Barclays set their target price at $42/share yesterday, giving GM a boost of over 2% yesterday.
They're currently about 70 cents shy of their high since the IPO... $35.99.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Through the history of American business, we have had good businesses and bad businesses run at different points by smart and successful people and by people who made bad decisions and were unsuccessful. Does that mean that once an enterprise is badly managed, it is always doomed to be a bad business? You are ignoring the value of smart people. No question GM had bad leaders and multiple bad decisions. Are you sure that's still the case, or do you think the past is automatically prologue for the future? GM has cleaned house and the people running the divisions today weren't in their positions three years ago. But with your logic, once a failure, always a failure? I'm not saying that they will once again become an American industry powerhouse commanding double digit PEs. But most of the people who took them down are gone. It truly is a new company in many ways.

Remember Apple under John Scully? People were writing that company off in the late 90s. The stock was $2 a share at one point. With your logic, nobody should have invested a dime in Apple because once a company has made bad decisions that brings a company to its knees, it is likely to always make bad decisions. But under Steve Jobs, the company is better than it ever was. And those of us who have owned Apple for a decade or more are much better off because we were patient rather than petulant.

Never underestimate the power of smart people. Whether GM has enough of them in the right chairs is something we will find out more about.

or people that waffle and can't choose sides. your posts are the wordiest this side of siniacylpse without ever making a point

Do you ever sit back, reflect and come to the conclusion that you're just full of a lot of hot air?

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Add Car of the Year awards from a bunch of places.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/10/autos/car_of_the_year/index.htm?hpt=T2

Also, notice that Ford is doing pretty well too with the Truck of the Year. Thanks bailout!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

By the way, with a current stock price of $38.68 a nice short term gain was made by anyone who invested in the first week of the IPO. Time will tell about the next year or a few years but currently even the short term investors in the stock have done quite well for themselves.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why does Ford thank the bailout for winning truck of the year?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ford needed the bailout to survive too. GM folding would have put them in a terrible position and unlikely to operate as well as they have.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ford took no money.
I don't see them needing to thank something they didn't take for winning an award.
That's like me winning a Grammy and thanking Ambien because many people who have depression have been helped by it and rather than committing suicide they bought my record.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I've posted the link before, but Ford was on the record as stating that they didn't need any bailout money as long as GM and Chrysler survived.

Without the bailout, and without GM, by the very nature of how connected they are, Ford would be in big trouble too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sure. But I don't think they need to thank the bailout for the continued success of one of their best products over the last couple decades.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

From the article:

The Ford Explorer is another example of what post-bailout car companies are doing to fix the mistakes they have made.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Cool.
When are you going to show me where the bailout made that happen??

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Well, in the most literal sense, GM not getting bailed out would have forced Ford to need a bailout to survive. I think it's safe to assume that if GM wasn't worthy, neither was Ford. Therefore, Ford would not exist either.

Now, in reality somehow one or both would have somehow survived but there would have been incredible damage done to both Ford and the suppliers that would have made this significantly harder to do.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Here is another interesting article.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/10/news/companies/detroit_autoshow_big_three_rebirth/index.htm

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So, what you're saying is that the bailout has absolutely nothing to do with Ford having the Truck of the Year. I agree.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

In my opinion, no bailout, no Truck of the Year award. Until string theory is proven and usable we will never know.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm glad we're having this chat because it's good IMHO we're gonna disagree on this one.
The truck of the year was in design/production long, long, long before bailouts were even on the horizon.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's a fair point but you have to admit that the last 2 years of design and production have been important too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sure, maybe for the 2013 and 2014 models.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I'll buy that logic.

The bailout was then a great success. They saved a company that had just totally finished the Car of the Year! The auto bailout was pure genius now!

They knew that it would win this award in 2008 and made it a no-brainer to save GM.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok man. All joking aside, I think it's safe to say that even without a bailout this car was still gonna win because its a good fuckin car. Ford didn't need the 2008 bailouts to engineer the car, because it's been in design and production previous to the bailouts. That was really my only bone to pick with you in this thread.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's fair. I just think that keeping Ford in a much stronger position helped it. They may not have made as good of a product if there was no bailout.

We aren't really that far off.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Uh oh, GM has gone way down today. Looks like it hit below $33 before it hit above $40.

In fairness to me, this is off a report that the government is looking to cash out very quickly, which would be a big mistake in my opinion, but would dilute things quickly.

Now would be a great time to buy as I think this is an overreaction but earlier in the thread I doubted this would happen.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I had this in November.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Well, it was at $33 or less for a total of about 2 hours. It still counts though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!