So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.

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You do understand that in regards to Stallworth that the victim was doing something very wrong too. That's why Stallworth isn't spending decades in jail. The guy was running across a street the equivalent of lake shore drive with concrete barriers in between the lanes.

In your case, Vick would not have that reasoning. Stallworth was considered at fault because he was drunk but in the state that it had to be shown that his impairment lead to the death. That's why it was a plea deal out. It was going to be nearly impossible.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah but if Stallworth wasnt drunk it could have been possible for him to avoid it. The bottom line is he put himself in a bad position by driving drunk, just like Vick put himself in a bad position by getting involved with the dog fighting ring. Both people made mistakes, but Vick's didnt result in a human being losing their life.

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Actually, the only useful part of the website IMO is that the remotes are easier to find.

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Where are they, I can never find them...

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It is about intent though. Not only did Stallworth not intend to kill someone but it's believed that it was the intent of the victim to injure himself.
Drunk driving is bad but dog fighting is considered much worse.
Vick is lucky that his illegal gambling ring didn't end with someone dying. Vick was just as likely to have it happen. This was an organized gambling ring. I'm sure they had guns and muscle and lots of money.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't want to get into a silly argument with you, but what is the basis for that statement?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

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I've discovered most of the time when people say something like this they proceed to prove it false.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That may be, but I'm not being argumentative yet.

You made an authoritative statement. I have no idea whether it's correct or not. I'm simply asking what your basis for making it is.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

not in my world



Yes, but no one died! He made some mistakes, got caught and paid his dues. Stallworth actually killed someone and he got a slap on the wrist.

I dont think Vick is a good person but he took his punishment and did his time. The other people got off with barely any punishment and no one really minds.

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Most of the time, a drunk driving conviction will result in a moderately small fine, probation, and alcohol counseling.

I believe that banking and operating a dog fighting operation will get you more than that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Even though the new look Web site, which has morphed into CBSchicago.com, is supposed to be easier to navigate, the new look site doesn't tell you when certain part-timers are going to be on the SCORE. That absolutely sucks!

The holidays are going to be here before you know it, and guess what? The Mullys, Hanleys, Macs, Spiegs, Boers, Bernsys and LoHos of the world will soon be off, and unless you are say Facebook friends with either Drinky or Goff, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO BE ON! Fix it!

It all has to do with intent. Accidents are unintentional.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

People are overlooking the fact that these dogs would have lived if they were winners...

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This is my signature...

So accidents with human deaths are not that big of a deal? Vck killed dogs. DOGS! Not people. DOGS! He is an awful person, but not worse than someone who caused the death of another person while commiting a crime.

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I disagree. I think that someone who raises, abuses, and kills dogs while running an illegal gambling operation is worse than a man who has 3 beers in an hour and drives at .08.
So let's say that no one died. Would Vick's act have been much worse than Stallworths? Remember your first sentence too.
Stallworth took his punishment and did his time also, which was much more severe from the NFL. Vick was suspended for 2 games by the NFL. Stallworth got a season.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Can you imagine if it were a dog trying to commit suicide in front of Stallworth?

Cars would be outlawed.

Very cool. Never been able to find these.

OK, you got me there. I was associating the drunk driving with the killing of someone, not just a run of the mill DUI.



They didnt need to suspend Vick for a season. He couldnt very well play while being locked up in Federal Prison. It wasnt like being on work release from the county jail.

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One of those statements essentially cancels out the other - both cannot be true without accepting cognitive dissonance; the original comparative (Human life > Dog life), which you agreed with, is a blanket statement regardless of the annotations connected to each side as a given circumstance merits.

Obviously, Vick's a whack-job - no question; and, we're all aware of the psych-101 tenet that one who hurts/kills animals easily can jump-up to humans. However, that's not a truth, that's a theory - one that does have some evidence to support it, but again, it's not a truth.

If intent is going to be involved in deciding who's the bigger dicksmack (Stallworth or Vick), I don't see how getting drunk and driving isn't volitional on its own - and thus enough of a prelude to equal 'intent' - which means that, again, the answer is clear since Stallworth killed a human and is thus the "winner".

To portray Vick as the bigger villain, it would seem that one must invariably couch their argument in such a way that it eliminates the human > dog status and then moves to choice ... even then, however, I don't see how Vick prevails.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Maybe I'm not understanding your argument correctly, but ... I guess I just don't understand your argument. There can all different levels of morality that results in you killing someone, from morally beneficial (killing Hitler), to morally neutral (having a heart attack or seizure while driving and hitting a pedestrian) to morally abhorrent (Gacy stuff). Same for dogs: morally beneficial (euthanasia), morally neutral, and morally abhorrent. Of course, there are a bunch of different levels of morally abhorrent, ranging from "only slightly" to "really, really awful".

Purposefully killing a human is worse than killing a dog. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. But we've made all sorts of judgments as a society that something done accidentally or unintentionally is not as bad as doing something purposefully. We have cliches to that effect (don't cry over spilled milk). It is built into our justice system (1st degree murder to involuntary manslaughter).

If you believe that drunk driving is the functional equivalent of choosing to kill someone, then I can understand why Stallworth's actions would be regarded as worse than Vick's. I just don't see how that can be so. Thousands of people drive drunk every day, unfortunately. Sometimes, though rarely, their actions result in an innocent third party dying. They put people in danger of dying through their actions, though fatality is rarely the result.

However, a dog is tortured every time a person tortures a dog. I know that sounds stupid, but Vick wasn't just putting himself into a situation where it was foreseeable that dogs might be tortured at some time in the future. He was torturing dogs. There's no second step in the chain of culpability.

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Fire Phil Emery

I do see your point ... it's more 1:1 on the act, rather than the victim, than mine. I guess, essentially, my jumping-off point is are we talking about a human or a dog, and from there it's two non-overlapping circles on a Venn diagram.

Not saying you're a dope or anything; just comparing and contrasting. I think we reach a similar conclusion in the end, just along a different path and maybe different sides of town.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

So according to Irish Boy, a guy who violently, repeatedly rapes and tortures a spider is morally worse than a guy who gets loaded, drives, and kills innocent people as a result of his behavior?

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So it would seem

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That spider was asking for it...just fell over with her 8 legs in the air

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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Wealth and Fame? likely not;
you've just stolen spider twat.


You are....something...

This is great...

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This is my signature...

That was awsome DT!

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014