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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:55 pm 
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So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.
You do understand that in regards to Stallworth that the victim was doing something very wrong too. That's why Stallworth isn't spending decades in jail. The guy was running across a street the equivalent of lake shore drive with concrete barriers in between the lanes.

In your case, Vick would not have that reasoning. Stallworth was considered at fault because he was drunk but in the state that it had to be shown that his impairment lead to the death. That's why it was a plea deal out. It was going to be nearly impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:07 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.
You do understand that in regards to Stallworth that the victim was doing something very wrong too. That's why Stallworth isn't spending decades in jail. The guy was running across a street the equivalent of lake shore drive with concrete barriers in between the lanes.

In your case, Vick would not have that reasoning. Stallworth was considered at fault because he was drunk but in the state that it had to be shown that his impairment lead to the death. That's why it was a plea deal out. It was going to be nearly impossible.


Yeah but if Stallworth wasnt drunk it could have been possible for him to avoid it. The bottom line is he put himself in a bad position by driving drunk, just like Vick put himself in a bad position by getting involved with the dog fighting ring. Both people made mistakes, but Vick's didnt result in a human being losing their life.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:12 pm 
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beni hanna wrote:
Thanks for tracking good sir. It is a tragedy that the ardent listeners to sports talk on 670 the Score are forced to manually keep track of when their favorite hosts will be on air...or set out some SHARK chum for the information.

This is a freaking talk radio station. It is crazy we cannot find out when, and in cases of future remotes where, our favorite "talent" will be on air.

Actually, the only useful part of the website IMO is that the remotes are easier to find.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:13 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
beni hanna wrote:
Thanks for tracking good sir. It is a tragedy that the ardent listeners to sports talk on 670 the Score are forced to manually keep track of when their favorite hosts will be on air...or set out some SHARK chum for the information.

This is a freaking talk radio station. It is crazy we cannot find out when, and in cases of future remotes where, our favorite "talent" will be on air.

Actually, the only useful part of the website IMO is that the remotes are easier to find.


Where are they, I can never find them...

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah but if Stallworth wasnt drunk it could have been possible for him to avoid it.
It is about intent though. Not only did Stallworth not intend to kill someone but it's believed that it was the intent of the victim to injure himself.
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The bottom line is he put himself in a bad position by driving drunk, just like Vick put himself in a bad position by getting involved with the dog fighting ring.
Drunk driving is bad but dog fighting is considered much worse.
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Both people made mistakes, but Vick's didnt result in a human being losing their life.
Vick is lucky that his illegal gambling ring didn't end with someone dying. Vick was just as likely to have it happen. This was an organized gambling ring. I'm sure they had guns and muscle and lots of money.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Drunk driving is bad but dog fighting is considered much worse.


I don't want to get into a silly argument with you, but what is the basis for that statement?

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
beni hanna wrote:
Thanks for tracking good sir. It is a tragedy that the ardent listeners to sports talk on 670 the Score are forced to manually keep track of when their favorite hosts will be on air...or set out some SHARK chum for the information.

This is a freaking talk radio station. It is crazy we cannot find out when, and in cases of future remotes where, our favorite "talent" will be on air.

Actually, the only useful part of the website IMO is that the remotes are easier to find.


Where are they, I can never find them...


http://events.chicago.cbslocal.com/loca ... ion-Events

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't want to get into a silly argument with you,
I've discovered most of the time when people say something like this they proceed to prove it false.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't want to get into a silly argument with you,
I've discovered most of the time when people say something like this they proceed to prove it false.


That may be, but I'm not being argumentative yet.

You made an authoritative statement. I have no idea whether it's correct or not. I'm simply asking what your basis for making it is.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Drunk driving is bad but dog fighting is considered much worse.


:shock: not in my world

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Vick is lucky that his illegal gambling ring didn't end with someone dying. Vick was just as likely to have it happen. This was an organized gambling ring. I'm sure they had guns and muscle and lots of money.


Yes, but no one died! He made some mistakes, got caught and paid his dues. Stallworth actually killed someone and he got a slap on the wrist.

I dont think Vick is a good person but he took his punishment and did his time. The other people got off with barely any punishment and no one really minds.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
You made an authoritative statement. I have no idea whether it's correct or not. I'm simply asking what your basis for making it is.
Most of the time, a drunk driving conviction will result in a moderately small fine, probation, and alcohol counseling.

I believe that banking and operating a dog fighting operation will get you more than that.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Even though the new look Web site, which has morphed into CBSchicago.com, is supposed to be easier to navigate, the new look site doesn't tell you when certain part-timers are going to be on the SCORE. That absolutely sucks!

The holidays are going to be here before you know it, and guess what? The Mullys, Hanleys, Macs, Spiegs, Boers, Bernsys and LoHos of the world will soon be off, and unless you are say Facebook friends with either Drinky or Goff, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO BE ON! Fix it!


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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.


It all has to do with intent. Accidents are unintentional.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:25 pm 
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People are overlooking the fact that these dogs would have lived if they were winners...

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So... If Vick was drunk and drove his car accidentally into a humane society intake center and killed 10 dogs, would it be OK because it was an accident? Arent the dogs still dead regardless? Who cares accidental or not, humans died and no one cares, dogs died and people hate Vick.


It all has to do with intent. Accidents are unintentional.


So accidents with human deaths are not that big of a deal? Vck killed dogs. DOGS! Not people. DOGS! He is an awful person, but not worse than someone who caused the death of another person while commiting a crime.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Drunk driving is bad but dog fighting is considered much worse.


:shock: not in my world
I disagree. I think that someone who raises, abuses, and kills dogs while running an illegal gambling operation is worse than a man who has 3 beers in an hour and drives at .08.
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yes, but no one died! He made some mistakes, got caught and paid his dues. Stallworth actually killed someone and he got a slap on the wrist.
So let's say that no one died. Would Vick's act have been much worse than Stallworths? Remember your first sentence too.
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I dont think Vick is a good person but he took his punishment and did his time. The other people got off with barely any punishment and no one really minds.
Stallworth took his punishment and did his time also, which was much more severe from the NFL. Vick was suspended for 2 games by the NFL. Stallworth got a season.

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Last edited by Brick on Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
People are overlooking the fact that these dogs would have lived if they were winners...

Can you imagine if it were a dog trying to commit suicide in front of Stallworth?

Cars would be outlawed.


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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:35 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:

Very cool. Never been able to find these.


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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So let's say that no one died. Would Vick's act have been much worse than Stallworths? Remember your first sentence too.


OK, you got me there. I was associating the drunk driving with the killing of someone, not just a run of the mill DUI.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Stallworth took his punishment and did his time also, which was much more severe from the NFL. Vick was suspended for 2 games by the NFL. Stallworth got a season.


They didnt need to suspend Vick for a season. He couldnt very well play while being locked up in Federal Prison. It wasnt like being on work release from the county jail.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
Human life > dog life, but a person that purposefully and cruelly takes an animal's life is morally worse than someone who accidentally or negligently takes a human life.


One of those statements essentially cancels out the other - both cannot be true without accepting cognitive dissonance; the original comparative (Human life > Dog life), which you agreed with, is a blanket statement regardless of the annotations connected to each side as a given circumstance merits.

Obviously, Vick's a whack-job - no question; and, we're all aware of the psych-101 tenet that one who hurts/kills animals easily can jump-up to humans. However, that's not a truth, that's a theory - one that does have some evidence to support it, but again, it's not a truth.

If intent is going to be involved in deciding who's the bigger dicksmack (Stallworth or Vick), I don't see how getting drunk and driving isn't volitional on its own - and thus enough of a prelude to equal 'intent' - which means that, again, the answer is clear since Stallworth killed a human and is thus the "winner".

To portray Vick as the bigger villain, it would seem that one must invariably couch their argument in such a way that it eliminates the human > dog status and then moves to choice ... even then, however, I don't see how Vick prevails.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Human life > dog life, but a person that purposefully and cruelly takes an animal's life is morally worse than someone who accidentally or negligently takes a human life.


One of those statements essentially cancels out the other - both cannot be true without accepting cognitive dissonance; the original comparative (Human life > Dog life), which you agreed with, is a blanket statement regardless of the annotations connected to each side as a given circumstance merits.

Obviously, Vick's a whack-job - no question; and, we're all aware of the psych-101 tenet that one who hurts/kills animals easily can jump-up to humans. However, that's not a truth, that's a theory - one that does have some evidence to support it, but again, it's not a truth.

If intent is going to be involved in deciding who's the bigger dicksmack (Stallworth or Vick), I don't see how getting drunk and driving isn't volitional on its own - and thus enough of a prelude to equal 'intent' - which means that, again, the answer is clear since Stallworth killed a human and is thus the "winner".

To portray Vick as the bigger villain, it would seem that one must invariably couch their argument in such a way that it eliminates the human > dog status and then moves to choice ... even then, however, I don't see how Vick prevails.

Maybe I'm not understanding your argument correctly, but ... I guess I just don't understand your argument. There can all different levels of morality that results in you killing someone, from morally beneficial (killing Hitler), to morally neutral (having a heart attack or seizure while driving and hitting a pedestrian) to morally abhorrent (Gacy stuff). Same for dogs: morally beneficial (euthanasia), morally neutral, and morally abhorrent. Of course, there are a bunch of different levels of morally abhorrent, ranging from "only slightly" to "really, really awful".

Purposefully killing a human is worse than killing a dog. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. But we've made all sorts of judgments as a society that something done accidentally or unintentionally is not as bad as doing something purposefully. We have cliches to that effect (don't cry over spilled milk). It is built into our justice system (1st degree murder to involuntary manslaughter).

If you believe that drunk driving is the functional equivalent of choosing to kill someone, then I can understand why Stallworth's actions would be regarded as worse than Vick's. I just don't see how that can be so. Thousands of people drive drunk every day, unfortunately. Sometimes, though rarely, their actions result in an innocent third party dying. They put people in danger of dying through their actions, though fatality is rarely the result.

However, a dog is tortured every time a person tortures a dog. I know that sounds stupid, but Vick wasn't just putting himself into a situation where it was foreseeable that dogs might be tortured at some time in the future. He was torturing dogs. There's no second step in the chain of culpability.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
Irish Boy wrote:
Human life > dog life, but a person that purposefully and cruelly takes an animal's life is morally worse than someone who accidentally or negligently takes a human life.


One of those statements essentially cancels out the other - both cannot be true without accepting cognitive dissonance; the original comparative (Human life > Dog life), which you agreed with, is a blanket statement regardless of the annotations connected to each side as a given circumstance merits.

Obviously, Vick's a whack-job - no question; and, we're all aware of the psych-101 tenet that one who hurts/kills animals easily can jump-up to humans. However, that's not a truth, that's a theory - one that does have some evidence to support it, but again, it's not a truth.

If intent is going to be involved in deciding who's the bigger dicksmack (Stallworth or Vick), I don't see how getting drunk and driving isn't volitional on its own - and thus enough of a prelude to equal 'intent' - which means that, again, the answer is clear since Stallworth killed a human and is thus the "winner".

To portray Vick as the bigger villain, it would seem that one must invariably couch their argument in such a way that it eliminates the human > dog status and then moves to choice ... even then, however, I don't see how Vick prevails.

Maybe I'm not understanding your argument correctly, but ... I guess I just don't understand your argument. There can all different levels of morality that results in you killing someone, from morally beneficial (killing Hitler), to morally neutral (having a heart attack or seizure while driving and hitting a pedestrian) to morally abhorrent (Gacy stuff). Same for dogs: morally beneficial (euthanasia), morally neutral, and morally abhorrent. Of course, there are a bunch of different levels of morally abhorrent, ranging from "only slightly" to "really, really awful".

Purposefully killing a human is worse than killing a dog. I've never heard anyone argue otherwise. But we've made all sorts of judgments as a society that something done accidentally or unintentionally is not as bad as doing something purposefully. We have cliches to that effect (don't cry over spilled milk). It is built into our justice system (1st degree murder to involuntary manslaughter).

If you believe that drunk driving is the functional equivalent of choosing to kill someone, then I can understand why Stallworth's actions would be regarded as worse than Vick's. I just don't see how that can be so. Thousands of people drive drunk every day, unfortunately. Sometimes, though rarely, their actions result in an innocent third party dying. They put people in danger of dying through their actions, though fatality is rarely the result.

However, a dog is tortured every time a person tortures a dog. I know that sounds stupid, but Vick wasn't just putting himself into a situation where it was foreseeable that dogs might be tortured at some time in the future. He was torturing dogs. There's no second step in the chain of culpability.



I do see your point ... it's more 1:1 on the act, rather than the victim, than mine. I guess, essentially, my jumping-off point is are we talking about a human or a dog, and from there it's two non-overlapping circles on a Venn diagram.

Not saying you're a dope or anything; just comparing and contrasting. I think we reach a similar conclusion in the end, just along a different path and maybe different sides of town.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:13 pm 
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So according to Irish Boy, a guy who violently, repeatedly rapes and tortures a spider is morally worse than a guy who gets loaded, drives, and kills innocent people as a result of his behavior?

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
So according to Irish Boy, a guy who violently, repeatedly rapes and tortures a spider is morally worse than a guy who gets loaded, drives, and kills innocent people as a result of his behavior?

So it would seem

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:20 pm 
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That spider was asking for it...just fell over with her 8 legs in the air


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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
So according to Irish Boy, a guy who violently, repeatedly rapes and tortures a spider is morally worse than a guy who gets loaded, drives, and kills innocent people as a result of his behavior?



Spider rape, spider rape
Sentenced harsher than human rape.
It can swing, from a web,
therefore you can't force head
Look out - here comes some spider rape..

Is it wrong? Listen bub,
It can suck you, but just your blood.
Legs are up, knees are bent,
it doesn't matter what it meant,
Look out - here comes some spider rape.

In the chill of the night,
at the scene of the crime,
with a ski mask on tight,
you're still be facing time.

Spider rape, spider rape,
not in my neighborhood spider rape.
Wealth and Fame? likely not;
you've just stolen spider twat.
To it, life was a real big bang-up,
Until you just messed it's 'tang up,
All for the spider rape!


Image

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Last edited by Don Tiny on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
So according to Irish Boy, a guy who violently, repeatedly rapes and tortures a spider is morally worse than a guy who gets loaded, drives, and kills innocent people as a result of his behavior?



Spider rape, spider rape
Sentenced harsher than human rape.
It can swing, from a web,
therefore you can't force head
Look out - here comes some spider rape..

Is it wrong? Listen bub,
It can suck you, but just your blood.
Legs are up, knees are bent,
it doesn't matter what it meant,
Look out - here comes some spider rape.

In the chill of the night,
at the scene of the crime,
with a ski mask on tight,
you're still be facing time.

Spider rape, spider rape,
not in my neighborhood spider rape.
Wealth and Fame? likely not;
you've just stolen spider twat.
To it, life was a real big bang-up,
Until you just messed it's 'tang up,
All for the spider rape!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:42 pm
Posts: 29260
Location: Parts Unknown
pizza_Place: Frozen
Wealth and Fame? likely not;
you've just stolen spider twat.



:lol: You are....something... :lol:

This is great...

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 Post subject: Re: 11/16 Mac and Goff
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65731
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
:lol: :lol:
That was awsome DT!

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http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


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