Probably not many with such a good ERA and 5 losses in baseball.

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" THis poster said it's 90% that Bernstein goes national. He put a percentage on it. " - Beardown

Okay, I'm sure there are older guys here who will agree with me and younger guys who will ridicule me, but I'll go on record as saying I don't believe Danks has pitched well this year at all. A pitcher's W/L record is important. It is largely a measure of how well he has pitched vs. the pitchers he has faced. Obviously, it is not as significant as it was in the era when pitchers were expected to finish games unless they were failing, but it remains significant nonetheless.

John Danks has managed to pitch as bad or worse than any starter he has faced this season. There are those who talk about "run support". To me, "run support" is nothing more than the ERA of the opposing pitchers. 0-5 is bad. There is nothing that can make it good.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I won't mock you, but I don't believe that. A pitcher controls how many runs he gives up. Nothing else.

So a pitcher in the AL with a sub 4.00 ERA is pitching well, regardless of his record.

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By your logic if the sox keep hitting like they did i April Danks would have needed a sub 2 era and still would of lost
2 games..??

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https://www.backroadspubandgrill.com

It looks like he is damn near going 7 ever outing and giving up around or slightly less than 3 runs per start. Those should all be considered quality starts. An elite pitcher would pitch a CG shutout and find a win here or there, but those are above average starts for the AL. I would love to have him on the North side pitching like that.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

Pitchers pitch the games they're in. They number of runs allowed are relative to what is occurring in a given game. The conditions in each game are different. The weather is obvious. But hitter's background and the strikezone being called by the umpire during the game are going to affect run production. But those things shouldn't change which guy pitched better.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's not necessary to pitch a complete game shutout to get a win. A game is a progression of events. There are key pitches and key at-bats in every game. How a pitcher handles those key at-bats and key pitches is the difference between an elite guy and Javy Vazquez, who has independent numbers better than many pitchers who are his superiors in real, actual baseball games.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So was Carlos Silva pitching well last year when he was winning but had an era in the high 5-6 range and he was only going the minimum 5 innings?

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

There's a lot to look at. You have to have a large enough sample. But Carlos Silva is a guy who had an okay career. He has a .500 record in 180 lifetime starts. He didn't "get lucky" 70 times. He outpitched somebody.

I know you don't think Jose DeLeon was better than Jack McDowell. I know you don't think Joel Horlen was better than Catfish Hunter. But you're using rationale that suggests you do.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

5.1 IP
6H
2 ER
4 K
1 BB
81 pitches

and a WIN my friends

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Check the Cueto line from the other day in his first start of the season.

6.0 innings
5H
0 ER
4K
1BB
103 pitches

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

7 base runners and 2 runs thru 5+ innings isn't exactly setting the pitching world on fire ya know.

I wonder what roster move they will make to bring Peavy back? Gotta be a pitcher hitting the DL or going back to Charlotte I would think.

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peavy: first of his 3 big league starts this year..5 i.p
3 e.r.
2 walks
2 k's
83 pitches
no decision

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I'm not about to make any picks for Jake Peavy as he makes his regular season debut vs. the same Anaheim Angels' team he pitched against when something went terribly wrong with the back of his shoulder. If Ozzie and pitching coach Don Cooper are smart, Peavy's on a pitch limit and doesn't go more than 5 innings in his first start since last summer.

I'm so happy it's Jake Peavy day.

Being an older sob I believe wins are so much more important than quality starts. Danks is reminding me of Jose DeLeon tuff luck pitcher that I think lost 19 games one year Blaming a team for not hitting while this guy is on the bump is just ridiculous. If Danks shuts someone out
I bet he wins 4.00 ERA blows in my opinion

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

his era was much lower until yesterday..wins mean zero in my book..era and whip are better indicators.he is still the ace of that staff

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If an 0-6 pitcher is the ace of your staff, you've got big fuckin' problems. What exactly are ERA and WHIP better indicators of?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

They are better indicators of how well you are pitching. A pitcher has very little control over wins.

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WHIP is a thing...one of the few stats I believe in. It's an indicator of how many guys are on base.

ERA is possibly the MOST overrated stat in baseball.

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I wouldn't say a pitcher has "control" over anything. Except possibly his own bowel movements. He has an effect on certain things. There are things he affects more than others. But ultimately, most of those things are incidental.

Javy Vazquez is better than Carlos Zambrano in K/9, BB/9, and WHIP. Are you really going to sit here and tell me those things make him a better pitcher?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Its not the only thing I would look at to determine a pitchers worth. It's something to consider, as well as watching him pitch.

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It's his penchant for bringing his best in big games that makes him better.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

But "watching him pitch" is the antithesis of modern statistical analysis. By watching, you're only seeing a minute sample. And you'll remember the spectacular- be it bad or good. Juan Pierre may handle his next 200 chances flawlessly and we'll still remember the ball he dropped early this season.

The problem with statistical analysis in baseball is that it ignores- by necessity- just how critical the "when" of something is. And because such analysis has failed to find any pattern regarding the "when", the assumption is that it is random.

I don't believe that a guy like Mark Buerhle has posted the record he has because he's "gotten lucky" with double plays. It's what he does and what he has done repeatedly throughout his career. He's pitched two no-hit minimum-batter games with a relatively few strikeouts. A lot of guys who strikeout a hell of a lot more people and are more "dominating" don't even have one. Are we really to believe Buehrle is the luckiest man this side of Lou Gehrig?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's Jake Peavy time! I can't remember the last time my nipples were this hard.

Srikeout for the Jake-meister!

And his arm hasn't fallen off yet!

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

What's the point of AJ Piersynski?

Fuck you Pierre!

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Is Peavy hurt yet? Is Pierre worse than Soriano? WTF was that?

I was one of Pierre's biggest supporters last year but this year he just plain sucks. Jordan Danks hit his 7th homerun in his last 11 games tonight and is said to be one if not the best defensive outfielders in the organization.

I think it might be time to get him up here and start playing him in right field and move Quentin over to left.