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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:35 am 
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C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:
Hell, why not have Griese warming up to send Rex a message? At a minimum...


For the same reason that you wouldn't replace him.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:36 am 
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C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:
Hell, why not have Griese warming up to send Rex a message? At a minimum...


What the hell are you thinking man!?!
There was no way to put in that old tard.
You know what? If nothing else Rex learned that being cocky isnt always the answer, and he has to catch the ball before he can throw it.

Griese/Orton/any other boob the bears can afford is NOT the answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:41 am 
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TommyV wrote:
C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:
Hell, why not have Griese warming up to send Rex a message? At a minimum...


What the hell are you thinking man!?!
There was no way to put in that old tard.
You know what? If nothing else Rex learned that being cocky isnt always the answer, and he has to catch the ball before he can throw it.

Griese/Orton/any other boob the bears can afford is NOT the answer.


TommyV, the Super Bowl is not the place for Grossman to learn that he has to "catch the ball before he can throw it." Lovie Smith had to do whatever possible to win this game - if you couldn't inspire him to play better, he had to come out.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:14 am 
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C_Howitt_Fealz wrote:

TommyV, the Super Bowl is not the place for Grossman to learn that he has to "catch the ball before he can throw it." Lovie Smith had to do whatever possible to win this game - if you couldn't inspire him to play better, he had to come out.


And we would have done SOOOOOO much better with Griese in there.
Yeah.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:30 am 
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Here are the facts:
19 rushes, 111 yards, 5.8 yards per carry.

Looks like a good running game that was underutilized.


That's the rub right there. The Bears went away from their obvious gameplan, WHICH WAS WORKING, and decided to allow Grossman the opprotunities to make mistakes. I know that sounds terrible and that a Super Bowl QB should be able to make the big plays, but let's be real here.

The Bears gave up before the 3rd quarter, and it is evident in witnessing the change of gameplan. In fact, the Colts did what the Bears wanted to do: run the damn ball, throw short patterns to move the chains when you had to, and resort to throwing the ball underneath when pressured.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:32 am 
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steve young said it best, one drop fine, but shame on you for the 2nd dropped snap.

I know the playcalling sucked, but grossman seemed like his head wasnt in the game.

never been a grossman basher, but things will need to change at the qb position next year. After this superbowl, i dont think the playesr are going to support him. that pick was pure bs, what was he doing. defense kept them in the game, but offense gave it away.

anyway down 5, bears didnt look like they would be doing anything on offense.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:21 am 
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the qb rating rex gets is too generous, getting credit for that TD. 0 points can be credited to them, well, unless you count Indy's points. The 17 pts were Hester and Thomas Jones. A FG thanks to field position


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:18 am 
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Uncle Frothy wrote:
Did a quick check. Thomas Jones had six rushes for 20 yards in the second and third quarters. I blame that on terribly predictable play-calling. I do give the Colts' D some credit for stopping the run when they needed to.

TJ also had 28 yards on three carries after the Colts returned the pick to go up 29-17. Garbage time, pretty much, but it made the Bears' running game look more effective than it was.

He played pretty well, but the game plan sucked.


Cedric was hurt early --he usually injects a little life into the running game and lets TJ re-juice. Why didn't they get Adrian Peterson a few carries in the same role after Benson was hurt? Jones just was worn out at critical times when we needed rushing spurts.
The Colts pretty much stuck to their playoff game plan of dink and dunk and Vinateri field goals. The Bears got away from their gameplan. Abandoning the two back running rotation screwed up the play action pass.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:00 am 
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Of the million or so adages about what it takes to win a football game, the most commonly used and perhaps the most accurate is, "games are won at the line", both sides of the Bears line were dominated last night and mostly the D-Line.

I agree the 2 and 1 pass call in the 3rd changed the game


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:28 am 
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I don't the running game was effective at all. The Bears rushed the ball 10 times in the first half, six of those rushes gained two yards or less.

When Grossman threw that first pick Jones and Benson combined for 13 rushes for 35 yards (taking away that 52 yard run). Jones gained 30 yards on three carries after the score was 29-17.

Of course if our QB had played a better game the Bears still could have won. What's with the fumbled snaps? I have never seen a QB struggle with a basic play.

I also seems like Grossman basically decides before he gets to the line of scrimmage what pass he is going to throw. On the first INT he pump faked the CB and the CB didn't bite. But he still threw the ball. Where were the intermediate throws down the middle?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:49 am 
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Of course if our QB had played a better game the Bears still could have won. What's with the fumbled snaps? I have never seen a QB struggle with a basic play.

Did you watch any of the regular season games?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:54 am 
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Did you watch any of the regular season games?



I did watch the games, including preseason. The fumbled snaps have been happening all year, even when it wasn't raining. Again has there been a QB that fumbles the snap as much as Grossman?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:57 am 
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Again has there been a QB that fumbles the snap as much as Grossman?


See Aaron Brooks.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:58 am 
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Again has there been a QB that fumbles the snap as much as Grossman?

I don't believe so, no. But, as I've said before, he can't really be blamed: those tiny Turnoverasaurus limbs make it difficult to hold on to the ball.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:59 am 
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It's official, we should have seen Griese in the regular season. He may have been worse, he may have been better, but at least we would have known. You can't just drop Griese in there after playing a couple meaningless series for the year.

If Griese was just as bad, then you can go back to Rex. Confidence is not an issue with Rex and sadly it may be his biggest problem(besides the fact that he hasn't learned how to take a snap). Like many people were saying, we should have seen if our backup was better.

Rex supporters will make arguments about how Griese isn't better. I would bet money that Rex had more 4 turnover games this year than Griese has had in his career.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:19 pm 
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I don't believe so, no. But, as I've said before, he can't really be blamed: those tiny Turnoverasaurus limbs make it difficult to hold on to the ball.


ahem. See Aaron Brooks.

I know you guys hate Grossman right now, but I've seen much, much worse. You should be hating your defense more. Instead of constantly trying to force a turnover, try tackling and actually stopping the other team. My team spoiled the Bears big time.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:20 pm 
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I bet you wrote this post before the first playoff game but you had to wait a month to post it. Griese wasn't the answer and never will be. It's fine if you think Rex isn't either but it's a fact he led the Bears to the SB in his first full year and Griese has failed to lead some great teams to the playoffs.


Actually, some of us have been saying since last training camp that there should have been an open competition for the QB job. But that's a moot point now.

It is not a fact, however, that Grossman "led" the Bears to the Superbowl. The Bears led him to the Superbowl. To paraphrase Dan Hampton, Grossman was just the monkey driving the limo.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:41 pm 
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You're right. Any monkey could throw 23 touchdowns and lead game winning drives to win both playoff games. Any monkey can take a 29th ranked offense and make them 2nd in the league in scoring in just one season.


WTF are you talking about game-winning drives in both playoff games? The Bears won the NFC championship by 25 points. There was a single game-winning drive?

WTF are you talking about with the scoring? You don't think the defense and their turnovers, Devin Hester, and the rest of the team had anything to do with that? It was all Rex Grossman and his 73 QB rating, 24th best in the NFL, and his 20 interceptions? Come on now.

But you're right. Any monkey could not have fumbled the snap twice in one Superbowl. It takes a very special monkey to do that. And he's all ours--for now.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:08 pm 
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Nas,
I like Rex, too, but let's not go nuts defending him today. And it's pretty hard to call his drive against the Saints a "game winning drive" when they were winning the game at the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:06 pm 
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I suggested warming up Griese to, at a minimum, hopefully inspire Grossman to play better. Would I personally have put Griese in? Hard to say since he hasn't received any meaningful playing time. But once it was obvious Grossman wasn't going to win this game for you (or let alone hold on to the damn ball, or avoid stupid interceptions, or so much as convert a third down), you had to do something to at least motivate the POS. Hard to believe winning the Super Bowl wouldn't have been motivation enough.

In my opinion, he had to come out. Did Griese give you the best chance to win? Given the way Rex played yesterday, he would have been hard-pressed to do worse.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:14 pm 
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The game was still undecided until Rex led the Bears down the field for an 85 yard touchdown drive. He was responsible for 78 of those yards.

The defense and Hester were responsible for 56 points this year. Minus those points the Bears would have been 9th and we don't know if the offense would have scored on those possession. Rex was ranked 7th in the league with 23 touchdown and 12th in total passing yards. He was the only new face on an offense that was terrible the year before.


It wasn't a game-winning drive and Rex didn't solely account for the yards. Berrian made an incredible catch for the TD on a pass that was poorly thrown. A better defensive back could have easily intercepted it.

The defense and Hester may have scored 56 points combined, but they were responsible for many more. You don't think getting the ball on a short field helps you score points? I guess 44 turnovers weren't meaningful for the Bears offense, eh? And Hester's team record for kickoff return yardage, a total which was something like 4th or 5th in NFL history, was meaningless, too? We should also remember that Rex's only strength as a passer is the play-action (since he can't actually read coverage and has no capacity to avoid blitzing defenders). Thus he is almost entirely dependent on the run game to pass successfully. Your love of one player blinds you to the facts of the season.

As for your statistical rankings, you forget to mention that Rex was the third-worst NFL QB in interceptions. Combine that with his 24th-best passer rating, and you have an average to below average QB, a guy who can throw the play-action bombs, but not do much more.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:19 pm 
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fumbles must not count towards the qb rating.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:

His rating was 104 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Why would you take him out at that point. He didn't start making mistakes until the 4th quarter


Want to talk about misleading stats.. what was he 4-10 for 80 yards with a TD? When did he fumble his first snap from center?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
His rating was 104 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Why would you take him out at that point. He didn't start making mistakes until the 4th quarter


Nas, his 104 was the worst 104 I've ever seen. He had a 4 yard touchdown pass after TJ carried them down to the 4. He completed a bunch of short passes that weren't enough for a first down. But he also fumbled two snaps and tripped over his feet, which are things not factored into QB rating.

I would have left him in because he's the better player. To say he was having a good game up to that point isn't accurate, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:50 pm 
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He had 29 scoring drives of 60+ yards this year and the Bears only had 5 last year.


Right. He can throw the bombs well, especially when teams bite on the play-action.

You say I want to blame all that is bad on Rex. Well, you want to give him sole credit for everything good about the Bears offense. Forget about the turnovers, the historic year in kick-returns, the run game, Berrian's emergence, etc.

Let's be honest. Rex was a "win with" guy this year, not a "win because of" guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Let's be honest. Rex was a "win with" guy this year, not a "win because of" guy.


There were a few exceptions, but on the whole I would say that is accurate. I do, however, think that he has the potential to be a "win because of" guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Before the season started everyone thought the Bears needed a WR and a TE.


I'd still say they need at least one wide receiver, a tight end--and a quarterback.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Every quarterback must play like Peyton Manning if the want to keep their job.



No, but they can't play like Grossman did for (forgive me if I'm incorrect with this number) some seven games this season.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:37 pm 
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A suggestion for Nas: change your signature to "Mark Prior will lead the Cubs to the World Series". It worked for Rex that way...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:39 pm 
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TommyV And we would have done SOOOOOO much better with Griese in there.
Yeah.


That's not the point...the point was and still is, if Rex see's the EFFING back up...WARMING up...maybe it sets a bit of a fire in his gut and he actually turns things around in the game. Secondarily, if u TAKE Rex out for one damn series (god FORBID) u give him an effing breather in a time where he may have needed to collect his thoughts and settle the hell down...the kid looked like a deer caught in the headlights at BEST.

We KNOW that Griese is at best as good as Rex...didn't we see him once this year, and he threw a late garbage TD, but also a pick??

Sexy wasn't gonna lead the Bears to ANY comeback win at all (not this year anyway, it's been ALL about the D all year long)..what harm would it have done to sit him for a series?!


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