You do think it's wrong, otherwise you would be willing to say that drunk driving should be legal. No one is going to believe something should be illegal if they don't think it's wrong. Now, not everything that is wrong is illegal but everything that you think should be illegal is wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I would view someone much differently depending on the situation. A mistake is getting caught at a DUI checkpoint with a .08. It's a lot different than what Harry did which was getting pulled over for driving erratically and blowing a .13 with a detailed history of drinking issues.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And if you look at his eyes in the mugshot, he was probably a lot higher than .131 when he first left wherever he was on Friday night.

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there are six people in my office. two of them have had DUI's. (I'm not one of them).
1/3rd for the fractionally challenged.

There is a point to be made about having a couple glasses of wine or two beers at dinner and being over a .08....probably safe, but still against the law
- versus -
speeding, lane drifting, and moving violations.

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@audioidkid

That's not true. A lot of things are illegal that aren't "wrong". We have laws to lubricate the gears of society. Not every law is a moral judgment. As Mr. Reason suggested earlier in the thread, I believe the current strong stand against driving under the influence is a matter of fashion more than anything else.

When we're ignoring obviously dangerous speeders and erratic drivers to pull over careful drivers because we suspect careful driving is a sign of drunkeness, we seem to have lost sight of the entire point of the law.

And I'm not a moral relativist either. I believe there are absolutes. I just don't think drinking and driving falls into that category.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That is my point. Now I have admitted I have been behind the wheel when totally smashed, but I've also gone out for a nice dinner and had a glass of wine before dinner and 2 white russians with dinner. Even though I ate, I'm still probably at or over .08 with 3 drinks in that 90minute stretch. Law or not, I feel there is nothing wrong with that.

My issue is the people that make you out to be some sort of devil for even getting behind the wheel after you have had just one beer/drink.

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If you agree with a law you think it is wrong. You may not agree with all laws but the ones you do agree with show what your moral code is. Unless you think that drunk driving should be legal, then you think drunk driving is wrong. It's pretty simple. There is no reason to think that something that isn't wrong should be banned or prohibited. That's why I was clear in mentioning that it had to do with your opinion and not society.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rick, it is against the law for a 17 year old guy to have consensuel sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. I don't think that is "wrong" in any stretch

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You might if it were your 16 year-old daughter.

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You know me like that.

That's a law that you don't agree with though. That's different. If you agreed with that law you would be saying that action was wrong. By you not agreeing with it, you are not saying that it's wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Maybe, Dr. I don't want this to get into a rape discussion, I was just using that as an example. Orr said a lot of things are illegal that are not "wrong" and that could be one of them. Hell, its still on the books as illegal to spit on the sidewalk in the city of Chicago.

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As I said though, there is a difference between a law = wrong vs. law I agree with = wrong.

There are tons of bad laws that I don't agree with that don't indicate my feelings on right and wrong. There aren't any laws that I agree with that I don't also think the action that is barred is wrong.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know about that, Rick. I kind of see JORR's point on this one.

If I agree with a law, that doesn't necessarily mean that I think the action being limited is "wrong". Take the state's .08 BAC law; I agree that limiting the amount one can drink and legally get behind the wheel is done as a means to make me and others on the road safe. However, I don't think it is "wrong" for me to have two beers at a bar, thus bringing my BAC to exactly the legal limit, and then drive home.

What this does boil down to, however, is the point that it really doesn't matter what I think is wrong vs. right. A law is a law if we agree to it or not.

That's not his point. He's not arguing whether .08 is the right number. If he was, I could agree as I don't think it's necessarily the right place. I asked if he believes drunk driving should be illegal, and he responded yes. If we set that number as at or above .10 I think almost everyone would agree that it should be illegal and is wrong. I welcome anyone to argue that being at or over .10 is not wrong. I choose that number simply because that was the old standard before they arbitrarily moved it down.

For the record, unless you are drinking Steel Reserve you aren't likely to reach .08 on two beers and even less likely to be .08 by the time you blow and/or have your blood test.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

DUI = driving under the influence. Not necessarily driving drunk. If I have 1 beer and then get behind the wheel....technically I am under the influence. Anyone can get arrested for DUI if the cop suspects anything....weed, pills, coke, alcohol...whatever. In my case having had a dui, I am under suspicion from the time I get pulled over no matter what the circumstances. Cops can charge anyone with anything.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

That's a good point, walkrman. They have DUI and DWI (driving while intoxicated).

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I'll let JORR speak for himself on this one, but I took it as he didn't think every single law prohibits something that is "wrong". And I agree with him on that.

Just like JORR, you seem to have missed the spot where I made reference to "everything that you think should be illegal is wrong".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is not true


I dont think beating a woman is ok. In fact, I think its wrong. But I dont think we should be pulling over every couple in a car to make sure abuse isnt going on.


Were talking about enforcement and interpetation of the law


Having a couple beers and driving isnt wrong
Having a couple bottles of jack and driving is.

both could get DUI's


Certain things are illegal, not for moral reasons, but practical ones.

Its illegal to put a pool in without a permit...is it morally wrong? No Should it be illegal? Yes

No, I read that part. I just don't know if I agree with it.

I'm glad that nobody was hurt. Harry has an opportunity to look at his drinking habits and decide whether or not changes need to be made. The station has long promoted Harry as the happy drunk basically (shots, shots, shots) who you can go drink with at remotes. Maybe it's time for that to stop? I'll not be in line to judge Harry because I know I have done the same a couple times. I just wasn't pulled over/arrested for it and therefore subject to the scrutiny that follows. I'll not be the hypocrite now though. I am interested to see how/if the show/station chooses to deal with this. Will it be strictly a private matter and not brought up on the air? I heard Mac mention it yesterday on-air, so I almost have to believe Harry will issue some kind of statement on the matter.

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Go Cubs!!!!

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Because you cannot see the top of Lincoln's head, you know the tred depth on that tire is sufficient!

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Go Cubs!!!!

I don't understand the relevance here. We aren't talking about searches. We are talking about actions. Domestic abuse and getting a DUI are both wrong and illegal.
Illegal is a stretch for a permit violation.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, YOU are talking about actions. The rest of the class is discussing enforcement and how the spirit of the law is kinda lost.

I dont know what you dont understand here. We all agree that driving drunk is wrong and should be illegal in some form. But the enforcement is questionable at best.

And yes, if the a person is pulled over for driving too safe to see if they might be drunk....were off the path of righteousness

lol why should i have to pay to get a permit for a pool on my own property? because the city needs more money to piss away? awful analogy

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you missed the point

lol

I could have used a better analogy

anyways, pick a law that you think needs to be on the books, but you dont neccessarily think is morally wrong

lol

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ok.. i think anyone over the age of 64 should have to take a driving test every 6 months to keep a valid drivers license

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What I am talking about is a direct response to JORR's thought that he doesn't think drunk driving is wrong but that it should be illegal. If you truly don't think drunk driving is wrong you shouldn't think it should be illegal.
Bold text is false. JORR's exact quote:

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!