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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:30 am 
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I think there is no way to go back and undo anything already done. I do think that going forward you should have to provide a valid birth cert. Is that clearer for you.
You started the insulting not me. Third grader right go back to posting funny pictures you found on the web. I got nothing against you ,sorry if my point was not clear enough for you.
Once again let me state by him not producing the document when he has had ample opportunities to do so just puts more doubt about his honesty and credentials in peoples mind. The birth cert is not that huge an issue to me as much as the holding back on the school records.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:57 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
While I have no problem with a birth certificate not being required...why would it be an issue if it were required? I'm not getting the problem. I fully believe Obama was born here...I don't really care if he wasn't. But going forward...since the law says you have to be born here...why not have to show it?

I have to prove I'm 21 (almost) every time I get a drink, because it is the law.


So I take it your fake Id still has not been confiscated?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:16 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
You started the insulting not me.
Third grader right go back to posting funny pictures you found on the web. I got nothing against you ,sorry if my point was not clear enough for you.
Once again let me state by him not producing the document when he has had ample opportunities to do so just puts more doubt about his honesty and credentials in peoples mind. The birth cert is not that huge an issue to me as much as the holding back on the school records.


Chas, you claim to not be a birther, but your first sentence started exactly like this: I am not saying The pres is from Kenya or Indonesia BUT. You said that we don't know anything about his past, and he seems to be hiding a lot. Then you said that it is really about his school records not the birth certificate, even though being a natural born citizen of the United States is a pre-requisite to be president, and good grades, or schooling of any kind, is not. That just doesn't make sense. You seem to have a thought on the birth certificate issue, whenever the topic comes up here, so it's clearly a hot button issue for you.

How exactly did I start with the insults? What funny pictures did I post? In my post, to which you have taken offense, the only thing that I said about you was, you are a birther, which you are, based on your thoughts earlier. That wasn't me taking a personal shot at you, it was me questioning your position on an issue? Is that off limits? Then you attacked my reading comprehension, which is basically attacking my intelligence. I'm not gonna take that from anybody, especially someone who claims to have a disability when his intelligence is questioned. That's like Danny Mac playing the "tard card". It doesn't go over very well.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:26 am 
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Chus wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
You started the insulting not me.
Third grader right go back to posting funny pictures you found on the web. I got nothing against you ,sorry if my point was not clear enough for you.
Once again let me state by him not producing the document when he has had ample opportunities to do so just puts more doubt about his honesty and credentials in peoples mind. The birth cert is not that huge an issue to me as much as the holding back on the school records.


Chas, you claim to not be a birther, but your first sentence started exactly like this: I am not saying The pres is from Kenya or Indonesia BUT. You said that we don't know anything about his past, and he seems to be hiding a lot. Then you said that it is really about his school records not the birth certificate, even though being a natural born citizen of the United States is a pre-requisite to be president, and good grades, or schooling of any kind, is not. That just doesn't make sense. You seem to have a thought on the birth certificate issue, whenever the topic comes up here, so it's clearly a hot button issue for you.

How exactly did I start with the insults? What funny pictures did I post? In my post, to which you have taken offense, the only thing that I said about you was, you are a birther, which you are, based on your thoughts earlier. That wasn't me taking a personal shot at you, it was me questioning your position on an issue? Is that off limits? Then you attacked my reading comprehension, which is basically attacking my intelligence. I'm not gonna take that from anybody, especially someone who claims to have a disability when his intelligence is questioned.


True it started like that but did not end that is why I asked you to read and take in the entire statement. I think the Pres likes this shit out there because it keeps most people from getting to the serious issues like his college days and what he did there. How he has never had a non government sponsored job. How he has never served a full term in any office he held. How his attendance and voting records are a joke.Now we got gas going to the $5 a gallon mark and he is refusing to release the reserves. Putting all the blame on the speculators. Yet they will not admit that the ban on drilling he imposed is partially to blame as well as his failed eco policies. I try not to get worked up because if he gets elected to a second term then there should be an uproar about voter fraud like non other. Also, sorry I took offense where there was non so I apologize.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:33 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:

In the same vein then, David Chuster, what is personally at stake for you such that you must take up the reins to combat, or, at the very least label/identify, alleged "Birthers" here with such vigor?

Does BHO sign your checks? If that is the case, I fully understand.


I guess when a guy takes a shot at me, after I question him about contradicting himself in the same paragraph, my ears perk up. I think saying that I took up the reins to combat, is quite a stretch, however. I think that my rebuttal was quite tame by board standards.

I just don't understand what drives people to continue this birth certificate issue. He has one, and it is out there, for those who want to see it. If there was anything to this, Karl Rove would have been all over it during the campaign in 2008. To continue this is just bizarre to me. And for you to suggest that I am "on the payroll" because I feel this way, is equally bizarre.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:42 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
True it started like that but did not end that is why I asked you to read and take in the entire statement. I think the Pres likes this shit out there because it keeps most people from getting to the serious issues like his college days and what he did there. How he has never had a non government sponsored job. How he has never served a full term in any office he held. How his attendance and voting records are a joke.Now we got gas going to the $5 a gallon mark and he is refusing to release the reserves. Putting all the blame on the speculators. Yet they will not admit that the ban on drilling he imposed is partially to blame as well as his failed eco policies. I try not to get worked up because if he gets elected to a second term then there should be an uproar about voter fraud like non other. Also, sorry I took offense where there was non so I apologize.


I read your entire statement. In your first post, everything from second sentence on, contradicted the first sentence.

What does any of the above quote have to do with the "birther issue", or what Jan Brewer's decision was?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:22 pm 
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john mccain wasn't necessarily a "natural born citizen" of the US and the issue has come up before.

read this article and put the goddamn stupid issue to rest.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/ns/nightly_news/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
I saw you fire the first salvo in this thread at least. Your initial thrust, while tame, still included that word, one which most here know to carry a negative connotation and which casts ad hominem aspersions at those at whom it is directed.

He questions everything about his past, including school records. He also said, and I quote, "why not just present the thing and be done with it"? We call those people birthers. I didn't make it up. If you have a better, or more acceptable term, lay it on me. How is that firing the first salvo? That is quite an exaggeration.

Regarding the "cert" , his supporters put forth what is purported to be an official certificate of birth, but many sources outside of his camp will confirm that it is indeed simply a short form of the true actual birth certificate and can be had even if you were not naturally born in the state.

If there was an ounce of doubt, why didn't Karl Rove jump all over this then? Nobody plays that game better than him. That guy is a bulldog. If there was a shred of evidence, he would not have slept until he could prove it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
If there are questions, then there are questions. You still used the term. Just because the term is used and accepted by the mainstream media, whose views are not without agenda or outside corporate direction, it isn't any less harmful or stigmatizing than any other pigeon-holing label you could give a person or group.

As for Rove? Who knows what his motivations are and whom is actually pulling his strings, but I will guarantee that he answers to someone or some group, and the identity of such gatekeeper(s) may not be the obvious answer. I don't see it as Dem vs. Repubs. I see it more as The Duped American People vs. These Assholes That Want To Fuck Us And Take Everything For Themselves At Our Expense And Without Our Overt Permission (one can look at the actions of BOTH parties and their leaders throughout recent years and see enough congruity to lump the two parties together as it pertains to this matchup). OK, now I am guilty of stigmatizing the latter group - whoops! I am not sorry, however, and I don't pretend to know Rove's motivations and I do not see his lack of action - and partisan bickering in general - as persuasive in this or any other matter - it is just a distraction from the subject at hand.

That is all there are - distractions from what is actually to be scrutinized: the docs. Throw 'em down for forensic analysis. Nothing else - actions, reactions, really matters.

If they did, by such logic the BHO side's unwillingness to initially and subsequently produce the proper formats for many of the requested items should be used as evidence against his credibility and natural born citizenship status.


You are running plays from Seacrest's playbook today. Focus on my use of the term "birther", instead of these nudniks who will never be satisfied. Even John McCain said the "birther" movement is ridiculous. He certainly could have taken this and ran with it, towards the end of his faltering presidential campaign, but there is a reason he didn't. There is no merit to it. Why is this still an issue, two and a half years later?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Why is this still an issue, two and a half years later?

There's still people who think the moon landing was faked.
That the CIA killed Kennedy.
That the OWN channel was a good idea.

They're just silly things to believe in.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Chus wrote:
Why is this still an issue, two and a half years later?

There's still people who think the moon landing was faked.
That the CIA killed Kennedy.
That the OWN channel was a good idea.

They're just silly things to believe in.


I agree with 2 of those 3 things :D

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Whatever discount.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:41 pm 
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No, you pretty much got it wrong there.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Darkside wrote:
No, you pretty much got it wrong there.

Good thing you are here to let everyone know when they do something either way.

Thanks, Viscount!

What are you talking about? You took it upon yourself to critique me and I wasn't even talking to you. Since you didn't get the reference, I simply tell you you're wrong on your critique. Then you say shit to me as if I started with you?
Why are you so obsessed with me? You're creeping me out with the way you stalk me here.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Probably because I don't like you, but see :24 for my actual answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct-ZZvdAKzQ

So your deal is that you're going to stalk me around the board?
That's probably going to turn out real well for you.
I'm not clicking on your link as I really don't much care.
Later, dude.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Chus wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Denied.
You have to provide cirt of birth to get a drivers license or to get government help why not for public office.
I am not saying The pres is from Kenya or Indonesia but why not just present the thing and be done with it. He has been back there at least 3 times during his term, Christmas. All this does is make it easier for people to have doubts about him, we know less about his background than any previous person holding that office. His presidential library is going to be one empty building when it is built, let him put it in Hawaii.


Why am I not surprised that chaspoop is a birther? The birth certificate is there for those who want to see it. If he really wasn't born here, wouldn't Newt Gingrich, John McCain, or another big shooter from the GOP have made an issue of this during the campaign? It seems like a good strategy on Obama's part, to keep letting lunatics like Palin, Trump, and now Charlie Sheen scream about nonsense like this.

http:// www. snopes. com /politics / obama / birthcertificate.asp

Look into it a little further. Snopes? Snopes and Wikipedia do not a well-researched paper make. Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not. It is not an Official Certificate of Birth.

It's not about the facts, it's about embarrassing "birthers" into submission and keeping others from looking too far down the rabbit hole by creating a negative stigma upon those who question official claims. See "Truthers" as well.


So what evidence are you relying on to claim that various "powerbrokers" have "ganged up" to forge Obama's birth certificate? What evidence do you have to invalidate the validation of the Obama birth certificate provided at factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html)? I'm not trying to be confrontational but am simply curious.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:56 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Chus wrote:
Why is this still an issue, two and a half years later?

There's still people who think the moon landing was faked.
That the CIA killed Kennedy.
That the OWN channel was a good idea.

They're just silly things to believe in.


I agree with 2 of those 3 things :D


You think the OWN channel was a good idea :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:58 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Darkside wrote:
There's still people who think the moon landing was faked.
That the CIA killed Kennedy.
That the OWN channel was a good idea.

They're just silly things to believe in.


I agree with 2 of those 3 things :D


You think the OWN channel was a good idea :shock: :shock: :shock:

What's the OWN channel?

Seriously

I have no idea what the hell that is.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:59 pm 
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I assumed the Oprah Winfrey Network, but that was just my guess.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I assumed the Oprah Winfrey Network, but that was just my guess.

That seems like an awful idea...who the fuck would want to watch her all day?!?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:03 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I assumed the Oprah Winfrey Network, but that was just my guess.

That seems like an awful idea...who the fuck would want to watch her all day?!?


Idiots

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
actcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html)? I'm not trying to be confrontational but am simply curious.

I explained this already. They did not provide what was requested.

For example: If I ask you for your driver's license, and you indeed HAVE a driver's license, yet you provide me with a Xerox copy of your State ID, you have not produced the proper documentation.

Also, what about the transcripts, student loan/fellowship, and other undisclosed info?[/quote]

Your response doesn't make sense to me in the context of the article I reference.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Q.Bovifs wrote:
actcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html)? I'm not trying to be confrontational but am simply curious.

I explained this already. They did not provide what was requested.

For example: If I ask you for your driver's license, and you indeed HAVE a driver's license, yet you provide me with a Xerox copy of your State ID, you have not produced the proper documentation.

Also, what about the transcripts, student loan/fellowship, and other undisclosed info?


Your response doesn't make sense to me in the context of the article I reference.[/quote]

I should also add that you haven't addressed my first question.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
sjboyd0137 wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I assumed the Oprah Winfrey Network, but that was just my guess.

That seems like an awful idea...who the fuck would want to watch her all day?!?


whistler

fixed

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:14 pm 
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well they are synonyms.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
I never made the outright claim you stated in your first question, so please let's just stick to the print and let's not put words in each others' mouths.

Also, we do not get to the level of validation of the document he propounded because IT IS NOT THE REQUESTED DOCUMENT.

Here is a detailed address of the factcheck and snopes claims, though: http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2008/12/ ... aught.html

Put forth that which was requested, plus all supplementary educational and background information, and allow for proper forensic analysis of such items, and then we can move on after it passes such scrutiny.

Rules are rules, plus enough people dearly care about unequivocal truth regarding this matter, and this man, like it or not, represents the will of said people: so GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, MR. O!


1)So when you write "Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not," you are not claiming that various "powerbrokers" have forged a birth certificate and promoted it as authentic? What else could you mean when you say they ponied "up that doc they provided as something it is not?"

2)It seems to me that much of the article you cite relies on semantic confusion between what is alternately referred to as the "original" or "official" birth certificate. Why is an official (ie legal) birth certificate not sufficient to prove Obama's country of birth? And what do you define as his "original" birth certificate?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Wow. TM dominating in this thread.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Q.Bovifs wrote:
I never made the outright claim you stated in your first question, so please let's just stick to the print and let's not put words in each others' mouths.

Also, we do not get to the level of validation of the document he propounded because IT IS NOT THE REQUESTED DOCUMENT.

Here is a detailed address of the factcheck and snopes claims, though: http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2008/12/ ... aught.html

Put forth that which was requested, plus all supplementary educational and background information, and allow for proper forensic analysis of such items, and then we can move on after it passes such scrutiny.

Rules are rules, plus enough people dearly care about unequivocal truth regarding this matter, and this man, like it or not, represents the will of said people: so GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, MR. O!


1)So when you write "Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not," you are not claiming that various "powerbrokers" have forged a birth certificate and promoted it as authentic? What else could you mean when you say they ponied "up that doc they provided as something it is not?"

2)It seems to me that much of the article you cite relies on semantic confusion between what is alternately referred to as the "original" or "official" birth certificate. Why is an official (ie legal) birth certificate not sufficient to prove Obama's country of birth? And what do you define as his "original" birth certificate?

1. No, I meant exactly what I wrote (see emphasis for clarification):

Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not.

I spoke of the media holding up the propounded doc copies and declaring a premature end to the debate.

Your statement alleges that I claimed a "forging" - not true.

2. You are oversimplifying the cite I offered. It did answer your original question, though. I think a re-read will show that the explanations offered therein stand up to your scrutiny on their own, so I need not appropriate their work as mine own. Yet, if you have more pertinent follow-up questions I can research them for you and attempt to satisfy your wonderfully-voracious appetite for truth!


1)You are not being accurate. Your statement makes it clear that you are saying that the various unnamed powerbrokers provided a somehow false document--that is, unless your sentence is grammatically incorrect, in which case you should clarify your pronoun-antecedent references.

2)I have re-read the article you reference and do not find it persuasive. One problem is that it contains links to a supporting document that apparently does not exist. Another problem is that it questions Obama's citizenship by arguing that Hawaiian law allows foreign births to be registered within the state and thus Obama could have been born outside the U.S. But his birth certificate lists the location of his birth as taking place in Hawaii, so the registration argument as constructed in the article you reference carries no weight.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Wow. TM dominating in this thread.


You cannot stop Tall Midget, you can only hope to contain him.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Wow. TM dominating in this thread.


You cannot stop Tall Midget, you can only hope to contain him.
Maybe he can chase him from the board like you did to Seacrest.

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