Taking it to Joe Morgan. Way to go.

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that was great

im surprised morgan didnt mention his daughter's gymnastics in that lil clip.

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But like mac said.....he did it from 400 miles away.

also he was defending a cub, so really no surprise there.

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May 1, 2007 - CSFMB Civil War
“Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it.”

Morgan's an ass hole. But why can Bruce and others accept that maybe just maybe they don't think Santo belongs in based on merit.

Hell Bruce. Your beloved writers had a chance to vote Santo in as well and they didn't. So maybe that group doesn't deserve to vote either.

So if they don't vote in who you want that means they shouldn't vote. That makes sense.

Bruce made some great points, and I'm glad he did it. Yes, it was on a teleconference, and its too bad it took someone from his favorite team getting rejected to get the point across, but something had to be said. They serve no purpose, and Morgan made it seem that way even more so when he pointed out that the people they vote on already had 15 chances with the writers. Levine gained a little bit of credibility back with me, but he's so far in the hole with me that its really irrelevant.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

After the Dusty ass-licking on Dusty's way out, it is going to take a long time for BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE to get his credibility back.

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<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

You missed the point: it's not that Santo didn't get in, it's that no one did. In three tries. No one. That committee is a joke, and Morgan is the very epitome of why. Kudos, Bruce.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

I didn't miss the point. What if they simply and honestly don't think anyone is worthy. Why can't that be a possibility? It was the opinion of the writers before these vets.

Plus keep in mind, 57 guys did vote for him. So people on this commitee are voting for people. But you need 75%

Yes you did, as you prove with your next sentence.


Not only is that a possibility, it's the case. That was Bruce's point. They serve no function, because they think no one's worthy.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

That is the case right now Matt. But new people will be coming to the Veterans committe in future years. Maybe they will think those guys deserve it. Gossage will be coming to the Vets in a few more years.

The Vets just don't like the group now. Maybe they will like future guys.

Just heard this and wow...Bruce Levine, definitely earned some respect from me today. Finally grew a pair.

Highly doubt it.

I agree with Morgan. Bruce's logic reminds me of fans who want their teams to make a trade simply for the point of making a trade.

Bruce's logic is sound on this one. What's the point of having a veteran's committee if they're not going to vote anyone in? They have had a long list of qualified players/managers/executives and only Santo was close.

Maybe it would be better if the committee's role were to vote people OUT of the Hall of Fame. And first up could be Joe Morgan, whose numbers in the three major categories pale in comparison to Ron Santo's. Plus, Morgan played seven more seasons.

Now we don't know if Morgan voted for Santo or not. But the point is that the committee is made up of guys who had worse careers, yet are unwilling to vote better players in. This tells me that Bruce is right and the committee is clearly unqualified for such a task.

Finji. Joe Morgan was on with Kap on WGN today. Morgan said he voted for Santo all three times in this new committe. So let Bruce know that. Plus 57 other guys voted for him. I don't know why they make it 75% to get in however. How did they come up with that percentage? 69% of the guys Bruce ripped voted for Santo. Bruce is ripping the committe when most agreed that Santo should be in.

No Finji. Bruce's logic doesn't make sense. I'll say it again. What if these guys simply don't think he belongs. Why does everybody discount that? These are border line guys. That's why they get to the vet's comittee.

So your saying that they should be required to vote somebody in each time. Wouldn't that water down the Hall of Fame?

Obviously alot of people disagree and think he should be in. But after 15 years with the writers and 6 with the vet committe maybe he's just not good enough.

I've been reading this argument thread today. Beardown, your logic is sound, no question.

But, if you are correct, then that means that the writers have done their job to perfection. They have missed no one that is worthy.

I think it is a little difficult to believe that there isn't one guy out there that is deserving that has been missed in the time that this committee has existed.

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Well. No Doc. 69% of these players thought the writers got it wrong with Santo. But it takes 75%.

Well the point remains that no one has gotten in. So the writers are still batting 1.000.

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Bad reasoning. The committee doesn't exist to vote players in. It exists to decide if a player deserves to be voted in. Further, the decision-making proces is individual rather than collective, so it's not like there's a "mob" mentality acting as a barrier to Santo's induction. The veterans are voting their conscience and have actually given more support to Santo's cause than the writers ever did. So maybe it's the writers who should be criticized, not the veterans. Or maybe the required threshold for induction is simply too high. Whatever the case, individual committee members are under no obligation to vote for a player just to say they've helped elect someone. That's what people like Finji seem to be suggesting and that's truly a dumb argument.

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The only part of Bruce's logic I agree with is where after Joe says that these are guys that were passed on for 15 years, that there is no point for a veteran's comittee then . I think you should maybe combine both the veterans and the writers. I say this because I see the HOF as something for the elite only, and I doubt that type of player might slip through the cracks.


I didn't see Santo play, but I like them being strict and like the idea of it only being for the elite. The fact there's so much speculation and he has to campaign his ass off for it sends up a red flag to me. And again, think it would be ridiculous to force them to elect a certain number of people

I know. I just don't see why that's a crime. With the 75% system that's what it has come to the last 3 votes. So be it. You think he should get in. At least 25% disagree of players disagree.

Another point. His own team didn't think he was worthy of a retired number for 30 years after he retired. Then they gave it to him largely out of sympathy a few years back.

The vet committee didn't vote this group in. That doesn't mean in years to come they will not vote others in that they feel have slipped through the cracks.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me Beardown, but I'm not saying Santo should get in.

I don't really have a strong feeling either way about it. I'm a Cubs fan and it would be nice for him. From what I've read, he seems to be an excellent candidate but whatever.

I am just surprised that they can't find anyone that has been missed. It just seems odd. But, I'm all for holding the HOF to a high threshold I guess.

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I could be wrong about this but for the last 6 years it's been the same border line guys up for this vet vote. Santo is the leader. I don't think any one of real merit has been added in the 6 years.

So while it seem that they haven't elected anyone in 3 votes. Basically they are just repeating "no" two more times from their first vote.

It's like this hot blond I've hit on 6 times at the bar. She hasn't rejected me 6 times. She rejected me once and repeated her self 5 times.

That's pretty good. Except I'd add that the blond has hand picked you and a group of your friends from among thousands to come over and hit on her and then rejected all of you. At some point she might start to look like a vindictive little b!tch.

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if santo didnt have all of the health problems that he did, this would be a non story. plus, he's making more money by being a glorified mascot in the radio booth than most of us will ever see.

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Bruce's credibility:

An employee of the Tribune, pushing for another popular employee of the Tribune, when he has not pushed for any other players in the past.

He has as much credibility as Iraq's press minister as the united states forces were storming baghdad.

Actually, it's more like Beardown and his friends were rejected by an even hotter brunette, who was so offended by their cheesy pickup lines that she went to another bar. So Beardown set his sights on a still hot but sluttier looking blonde. Just because Beardown's desperate,though, that doesn't mean the blonde has to feel charitable.

According to me, that's the situation.

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Can't argue with those sources.

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That's one of the problems I have with it gd - that if this was Minnie Minoso, Bruce wouldn't get that spine. However, I'm glad that he did find a little backbone to call out Morgan. Screw Joe if he's offended, he's been shown to have the most agendas of all the veterans. If he thinks the committee isn't required to put anyone in since these guys have missed 15 times with the writers, then fine - dissolve the committee.

I quantified it dolphin - Bruce has put himself so far in the whole on all his other slobberknockering, that this isn't going to clothe him in white linen. However, he at least said what no one else there did (at least from what we heard).

And for the record, I don't think Santo should be in either...

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin