Exactly. He was getting older and ouchier. His numbers declined whereas some of the other guys' numbers continued to get better or stayed the same.

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He should have stayed on the stuff.

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I just don't think so. Before testing, Konerko had a couple of season where he sucked for halves of seasons. His numbers have never been earth shattering. He's about 35-40 homeruns in his best seasons. Look at Konerko. He's no physical speciment. He basically looks the same as he did as a rookie with the exception of the fact that he's a little fatter. Not stronger. Paulie is a thinker and I believe he'd be paranoid as hell to put that shit in his body cuz he's scared of the long term effects.

As for Frank, he played with a gut the last 10 years of his career. That's not indicitive of someone on steroids. Plus, as someone pointed out, he called for steroid testing in 2002. One of the only players to publicly do that. Certainly the biggest star to do so. Another point for his innocence.

Konerko - best year of his career at age 34 after 3 years of decline. Happens all the time.

Thomas sucked after he called for testing. You could just as easily argue the opposite - that he just stopped using. Why not call for it in 1999, 2000, 2001? Too busy hitting .328?

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Frank didn't gain 30 pounds and grow 4 hat sizes. Not very scientific, but he seems to pass the visual test.
Plus, he never hit more than 43 Home Runs....and only hit 40 or more in 5 seasons.

Doesn't really seem like juicey numbers to me. Especially in 1998 when he hit all of 29 hr's while playing 160 games.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomafr04.shtml

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Sucked??

OPS:

'03- .952
'04- .997
'05- .905
'06- .926
'07- .857

He was downright awful after making those comments.

Wait a second. You're using two different arguments as proof that Konerko and Thomas used. Why can't Thomas' decline be because of natural regression because of age? Doesn't that go to him having a normal baseball career and not being on streroids. He also decided to become a dead pull hitter and swing for the fences in his last 7 or 8 years. Didn't care as much about the average. Chasing 500 was important to him. He had a 39 HR year in Oakland with a poor average at the end of his career.

As for Konerko's best season last year. Yeah. It was. But not by much over some of his other great years. Doing it at 34? Not totally an old man. Some guys in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s had great years at age 34. It's not impossible to still be good at 34.

38 year old hitting 39 homeruns and having 114 RBI after failing to play in 80 games either of the previous two years doesnt really help the "Frank didnt do roids thing"

Yeah it does. It was the year he was healthy for an entire season. He had been battling that foot thing for a few years. And other stuff too.

Right and after a while he said "to hell with this injury stuff, Im going BACK on the roids"

Sure it could.

It could also be because he got injured and wasn't able to lift weights so he decided to stop using, called out MLB, and began to "suck" (relative to his own standards). 50/50

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Check this out. Willie Mays was clean, right? Nobody is gonna say he was on steroids.

Mays hit the most HRs of his career, 52, at the age of 34. Read it and weep.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mayswi01.shtml

Konerko's best year, while not by much, was at 34. So this means it can be done and Konerko is clean!!!! I win!!!!

But using the stuff means you don't have to lift as much. Didn't LaRussa say that of Canseco. That he was never in the gym lifting and everybody was shocked at how big he got while doing nothing. Wouldn't you need it more if you're hurt. Why would he all of the suddend stop before testing? Doesn't make sense.

Willie's career prior to that wasn't in decline.

But, surely, Paul Konerko is every bit the athlete that Willie Mays was.

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I'm not saying he's at his level. But Konerko having a good year at 34 sure as hell can be compared to Mays having a great year at 34. Different scale, but same results relativley speaking.

This one is gonna sting, Doc. Andre Dawson, in his first year with the Cubs hit 49 HRs at the age of 32. In his 10 prior seasons with the Expos he only hit 30+ one time. Now what?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dawsoan01.shtml?redir

No, it can't. Mays demonstrated, as an incredible athlete, that he was able to maintain his prime far longer than other players. That's why he's an all-time great. Him having a great year at age 34 was just a continuation of his prime where he led the league in homers 2 of the 3 years prior to that.

Konerko was averaging a year of .260/27/80 for 3 years and then up pops a career season of .312/39/111.

Mays was averaging .305/45/118 for 3 years and then did a .317/52/112.

I win.

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double post, 'roided up to a triple post, possible inside the parker

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I wouldn't debate strongly against 'roids. But, also, smaller ballpark, player contentment, contract year.

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A couple of those "bad seasons" were bad halves for Konerko. Proof that it was just a "baseball slump" for whatever reason rather than a decline. Cuz he did have monster halves to make up for those "bad halves" in those "off seasons".

I win!!!!

OK, Beardown. I can tell you aren't ready to accept the obvious and I'm not going to be responsible for shattering your illusions.

Have a great Christmas. Leave Santa some cookies.

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What?
Frank hit 12 home runs in 34 games the year he had the foot fracture....2005*

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I love that Pauly has reached 'he's so damn good he must be on steroids' status.

You know, after reviewing some of this info, I think I'm ready to change my opinion.

It's quite possible he never got off the 'roids at all and just was playing a hell of a game of chicken with MLB. Ballsy.

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he's a better liar than Lance Armstrong then...probably the best liar ever if you think about it.

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You're probably right, doug. He got off the 'roids.

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best liar ever...

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