I just don't think bernstein knows what a good OBP actually is.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

4

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He also doesnt understand OPS+ or how to apply it.

You guys should call in and tell him that.

That call wouldnt get thru...and if it did, Bernstein would scream over people and deny he said what he said.


Plus only losers call in to radio shows.

He likes to use it to compare players across various leagues and seasons. I'm sure one of those kids on bigfan's team may have had an OPS+ of 260. Look! He's better than Babe Ruth.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Technically, I think Ten Foot Midget just won something.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, well I made a few calls to MJH back in the day, so Im just kidding anyway.

Pierre: .330
Castro: .336

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Pierre: .333
Castro: .341

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Pierre: .335
Castro: .342

_________________
The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Let me know when they're good at baseball, okay, Dave?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Just keeping the thread going.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Pierre is not as good at baseball as he once was. Castro is going to get better at baseball than he is now.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Once upon a time, so were Wood and Prior.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Castro OPS+: 110
Pierre OPS+: 83

Juan Pierre is bad at baseball. I don't even think Castro is or will be all that good. But Pierre is bad.

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Fire Phil Emery

Why do you say that? With the bat he has been and probably will be very very good, though I don't expect him to have much power.

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He did hit bomb number 5 yesterday.

That was always my concern. Devoloping power happens but its usually a guy going from 10-15 to 25-30. Not 1-20.


He's a good hitter and when they find a position for him he'll be even better.



JORR, why dont we just end this silliness and agree Bernstein doesnt know how to use SABR stats to support his arguments.

If his defense doesn't improve he doesn't really have a position. His bat will never be lively enough to play third. Maybe you can move him to second, especially considering so many of his problems are on throws, but we'll see. I also assume all Cubs players will become bad until further notice.

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Fire Phil Emery

15-17 errors is still a lot for a SS.


A lot of people said the same thing about Gordon Beckham.

I'm not saying he will only be a .250 hitter like Beckham has to this point, but still...

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It's too late for that, Bryan. As you can see, the insidious influences of bernstein coupled with easy access to Baseball Reference have combined to convince even the lawyers of tomorrow that players who are capable of hitting safely 200 times in a season on four occasions are "bad at baseball".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think the high average and 30+ doubles is very attainable for him. I doubt he becomes a big power guy (15 HRs tops) but I don't see his defense improving all that much. I think he will always be around 20 errors a year.




I get what you are saying ORR, really I do. But there is also the eye test- which I know can be just as damming and using one single stat to state your case-- and Pierre has flunked that time and time again this year. He looks bad on the basepaths and worse in the field, despite his average climbing fairly steadily since mid May.

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Ty Cobb did it nine times and he's bad at baseball now too. Who gives a fuck that Juan Pierre got 200 hits five years ago? He is bad at baseball right now, and has been for some time. He wasn't even particularly good the last time he did it, and I don't really need to look at numbers to see that, since I watched plenty of shitty Cubs baseball in 2006.

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Fire Phil Emery

What does this have to do with anything? Brett Favre won three straight MVPs once, but I'm pretty sure Vikings fans are glad he's gone.

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

pierre is doing better than i thought he would this season at the plate, but this is no real challenge..castro will have a higher obp than pierre.... i expect casto to finish with an obp of 350 and pierre around 325

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For what it's worth let's put Moneyball aside for a second here. OBA isn't really more important than many other stats. The premise of Moneyball was that certain traditional stats were overvalued, and small market teams could exploit certain under appreciated player attributes to even the playing field with larger market franchises. Somehow alot of the SABR guys have perpetuated a backlash against traditional scouting. Then you have guys like Bernstein just parroting rate stats off BR without actually observing many of the players in question.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Dont let the Billy Beane haters read this.

To them

Moneyball= Billy Beane saying he invented OBP

Your argument would make a lot more sense if Cobb were currently getting on base 35% of the time.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If I thought you were a real person, I would bet anything you want that such a thing will not occur.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Currently, Ty Cobb gets on base 0% of the time

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