_________________

I don't know how the saber crowd enjoys sports. Maybe they are better at their fantasy leagues and building major league rosters. Bernstein for one sounds insufferable. Frankly, I don't care. I sit back and use the ole eye test. That's why I am a member of meatballs anonymous.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

This

_________________

Stats are just a tool that can be applied to understanding sports. You can use them as much or as little as you like. To say that statistics are ruining sports is ridiculous.

_________________

Agreed.

I love me some sabermetrics. I can't imagine anyone, including Bernstein, is really considering someones BABIP if a defender makes an amazing play on a ball. The stats can just be used to understands results and tendencies between games as well as serve as a tool to help predict future outcomes.

_________________
Team Cutler.

You sit at a bar and say A-Ram is a clutch hitter. Bernsie tells you there's no such thing, and then goes on to beat your arguments into the ground. You tell him you like Juan Pierre and he explains how bad he really is. Then you tell him you hate Adam Dunn, and he tells you how great he really is. By the end of the conversation, you hate baseball.

I prefer my meatballness.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

If you don't like IB why not just be straight with him and tell him?

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Here's a thought. Don't talk to BernSTINE at a bar and just watch the game with other meatballs or drink so much Old Style that you end up headbutting him and calling him a stat weenie. Problem solved. Enjoyment of sports still intact.

_________________

I agree wholeheartedly with DenisDMan. The only statistic that I care about is number of World Series Championships. Winning!

I do not need a geeky statistic to tell me who is a good ballplayer. Plus, if I ever again hear somebody talking about their fantasy team, I will literally stick my head in an oven and turn it on.

_________________
1923-1927-1928-1932-1936-1937-1938-1939
1941-1943-1947-1949-1950-1951-1952-1953
1956-1958-1961-1962-1977-1978-1996-1998
1999-2000-2009
----------
XXI - XXV - XLII - XLVI

Here's another article written by the same guy:

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Well I am a Cubs fan, so that fits the bill (Old Style and meatballs). !!!!!

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

For those who don't like sabermetrics, quick question... do you want the people running your teams using sabermetrics?

Not really. Obviously they are going use stats, but I think sabermetric purists go way too deep on relying on stats.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

Man you are gonna be pissed when the Cubs bring in Billy Beane huh?

_________________

I am pissed that I am a Cubs fan.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

well at least you are a sane meatball

_________________

This

I wish the sabermetricians would analyze the anti-sabermetric crowd. That would be interesting.

_________________
Lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be.

Frank Coztansa + Bart Simpson = Match!

Use: yes. Rely on: no

Stats can enhance enjoyment of the sport. The box score was the original sabermetric. The overuse does become absurd.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

To be fair, he could be talking about Boilermaker Rick too.

I wouldn't be terribly upset if that happened. Billy Beane with a bigger budget could be half decent

_________________
Team Cutler.

Good point. I still love reading box scores. But they don't have all those new fangled metrics in them. They are straightforward.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

batting average is actually a more convoluted metric than on base percentage

ERA...after a guy throws 9 innings in a year I'm pretty much lost figuring it out unless IP is some number divisible by 9

I don't have a problem with the added information. There are several questionable metrics floating around out there as legitimate. There are also some statistics that have been attempted to be disproven which are still usefull in the hands of a sophisticated analyst (I still think a pitchers W/L has value, even better the team's record in games he started).

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

"To be fair," not really. BR isn't a stats person.

I've always found the "how can you enjoy it?" argument curious. "I love baseball so much that I choose to remain ignorant about it." OK. I'd think if you really liked something that you'd try to learn as much about it as possible.

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

_________________
Fire Phil Emery

I don't know why but this has me rolling...

I'm very interested in stats, and advanced stats, but I have yet to ever meet someone who believes stats are the final and only word on everything.


Most of the people who make accusations like that are the type of people who "don't believe in UZR" and therefore believe Jeter is still a great defensive shortstop. And their evidence of this is because they have "been a Yankee fan for X years" and they have "never missed a game."

Most of the time, the evidence people use to back up their point is significantly less interesting and less reputable than stats or sabermetrics. And most importantly, one man's opinion isn't helpful when comparing a single player the rest of the league. That's when stats are most useful, IMO.

Do you think 'stat guys' watch games and study the stats? That's my biggest issue with 'stat guys.' I think most just spend time on Fangraphs or buy a subscription to Baseball Prospectus and think they know baseball. I think the introduction of sabermetrics has actually made 'fans' watch baseball less.

But that's one huge benefit to stats. I can't sit and compare a Cubs player to a Mariners player. I don't ever see the Mariners play. Literally ever. But with stats, I can compare players from both teams using a standard that measures them equally. Are there things stats won't account for? Absolutely. But stats get me ten times closer to understanding both players than a guy who "watches a lot of baseball."

Again, the problem with the guy who watches a ton of baseball, is he can't accurately compare players on a level playing field. It's just impossible.