At this point it does appear that the Bears overpaid for a player that may only be slightly better than Orton. Even with all of your blind Orton love you were right.

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I think they could have used the money they're paying Cutler for that. I was high on Nicks that year. Having guys like will make even a bad QB look good.

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Upgrading the OL isn't and has never been a question of having money. Angelo actually believes in these guys. There were good OG on the market this year and Angelo simply chose to be disengaged.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Cutler can be 10x better than Orton, and it still not matter because the rest of the team blows. And I like Orton, so I'm not trying to contribute to the pissing contest. Point is, it doesn't matter.

You make him play with shit and lo and behold, his confidence is gone. Also his motivation. (Let's not go down the money path.) If he knows Turner is a pud, that Martz doesn't have a clue, that Angelo's not going to bring help, that Lovie doesn't really understand why there is an offense (play D on both sides of the ball )... Well, my motivation would be gone. Oh, wait: and the local media. Gutless Cutler not really hurt, wah-wah-wah. It's all bullshit.

I was thinking last night, how effective is Cutler with this O? As effective as Jim Miller with his group? Grossman (good & bad Rex)? Orton?

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Middle Aged Crazy, like Uncle Terry

jim miller was a bum..he was in n out of the league in 6 years and was a backup 90% of the time...miller and wrecks had a good running game and good line so it is hard to compare

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All the views on Cutler being bad might change if he had plays with a moving pocket and option to throw or run. Not on every play,but they should use it. It's one more thing for the defense to watch out for. Maybe it brings the LB's up a few steps and opens holes in the zone for even this sorry-ass crew of WR's.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread amid all the apologizing for initially liking the trade: The Bears were in the NFC Title game the year after the trade, correct? With garbage receivers and a garbage o-line. Talk about "making the players around you better"... how much further should that group have gone?

The Bears are 1-2 so far this year, so, it's all over now? Is Cutler's contract up this week?

How's Denver doing?

This is ridiculous.

Bears won last year because of their defense and Forte's play after the bye. Cutler wasn't the reason for the turnaround.

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the nfc was also absolutely abysmal last year.

Yeah. It only produced the super bowl champion.

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Ridiculous. Cutler played as big a role as anyone. Youre just mad at him right now.

Mostly because he wasn't on his ass every third play.

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Probably not sucking the other two out of three either

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So last year he was good? But this year he sucks?

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I don't think Cutler ever will be an "elite" QB (Big 4 - Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning). But I think with the right pieces, he could certainly be a Philip Rivers-type QB. Problem is I can't justify it one way or another because there is not a single variable outside his control that has been positive or even mediocre. The cumulative effect of the shittiness around him has affected him so much, I don't think he trusts anyone to be in the right spot, hold a block, or catch a ball. This is why he holds the ball at times. It's too bad we can't know for sure.

So, I ask this completely honest question because I'm curious....

What level of ineptitude around Cutler is enough to mitigate his blame?... NOT to completely absolve him of any mistake, but enough to admit that his play is so significantly dragged down by everything around him that it is nearly impossible to judge him. A college WR corps and Oline? A high school WR corps and Oline?

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From what I could see he was horrible in '09, pretty good last year, and not looking good this year.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I have to disagree with that, completely. No way they make it that far without his contributions.




Well, why? Were the Saints abysmal, even with Bresus? Were the Eagles abysmal, with Vick? Were the Falcons abysmal, with Ryan? Were the Bucs miserable, with Freeman? These, along with Rodgers, are all QBs that are supposed to be better than Cutler. So, they didn't have the right pieces around them? Why didn't those QB's raise their team's level of play, like franchise QB's are supposed to do?



But by what standard is he not looking good? People were singing his praises as the new and improved Jay Cutler after whipping Atlanta. He didn't have much of a chance down in N.O., and then had a bad game against Green Bay, although, there are many other QB's whose play would be defended if they ended up with 300+ yds and 2 TD's, as Cutler did.

It's just way too early for this. The Bears have probably had the toughest schedule in the league for these first three games. I know we live in an immediate-gratification society, but it seems like everyone's got the season already finished - take the Lions and crown their ass already. I suppose Brady has already had a bad year too?

I just heard the MNF crew deem Romo a great leader. The reasons they provided - he chewed-out his center for snapping the ball too early, and he pointed out the proper location for his WR when he lined up in the wrong place. Cutler does those things and it's a demonstration of poor leadership abilities. Football is strange.

On ROmo getting away with it, probably because they like him.

On to the Bears, just throwing this out, would you trade a 4th to 7th round pick to the Patriots for Ocho-Cinco. The Pats could want more and I wouldn't give up a 1st or 2nd round pick, 3rd thinking, but defnitely 4th or higher. It does bring in at least some receiver talent.

But Jerry likes to stockpile late round picks.

The point is that I ignored the personal statements about Cutler being petulant or being a bad teammate and focused on particular areas of his game that he was critical of. The statements about his poor decision making with the football and tendency to cause too many turnovers have proven to be accurate.

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Go Cubs!!!!

I remember the day the Bears traded for Cutler. I was driving to Wisconsin with a guy who works for me to visit a customer, & while driving through Lake Geneva. the Score broke in with the trade story. We were high fiving each other in the car & could not believe what we just heard. I loved the trade at the time, but in hindsight, knowing what I now know, Jay isn't really anything special. He's just another athlete who is gifted & has tremendous talent, but is just a guy. There are hundreds & hundreds of athletes just like Jay. He's over rated & ranks in the middle of the pack with the rest of the average QB's.
Until he proves otherwise, Jay is just a guy.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

the way i remember it was .. most people i talked to thought the bears gave up way too much to get cutler, but since angelo can not draft ..most said " what good are draft picks if that dope angelo is drafting"

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The Bears were in the NFC Title game last year. The wr's can't be that bad. The Bears were in the NFC Title game last year. The o line can't be that bad. The Bears were in the NFC Title game last year. Mike Martz is a good coach. The Bears should be free from criticism. They made the NFC Title game last year!

While the Bears were deserving of having an easy road to the NFC title game, they did. They got to face one of the worst playoff teams of all time that only won because they unfairly got a home game at a place with a major home field advantage. Also, Cutler was really bad in the NFC title game so be careful in citing that as a reason for shading him from criticism. I'm not talking about the injury either. I'm talking about his actual play.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I really don't get the extreme criticism about Cutler. My god he overthrew some passes Sunday...well pretty much every QB will miss on a few passes, especially if its downfield as many of Cutler's were. He threw 2 interceptions, well that was only one more than Rodgers.

I keep hearing that Cutler had a bad ballgame, he threw for 302 yards completing 21-37. Thats 8.2 yards per attempt, a great number. The Bears dropped 5 passes at least, if we cut that number to 3 drops than Cutler completes over 60% of his passes instead of 57%.

This is all without the threat of a running game. You put pretty much any other QB out there, I don't know if he puts up much better stats.

I really don't get Bear fans at times. The Bears defense, supposedly a top defense, gives up 30 and 27 points in consecutive weeks and the general concensus is "well what do you expect going against two of the top QBs". Cutler throws for 300 yards with no running game and "wow he is bad".

And lets really take a look at the running game. David Haugh talks about the Bears identity when they win is playing great defense, running the ball and special teams. Well the running game, not just this year but the last 5 years, has been mediocre to bad.

There is the old adage, when the team wins the QB gets too much of the credit and when the team loses the QB gets too much of the blame. Well in Chicago when the Bears lose the QB gets too much of the blame and when the Bears win they win in spite of the QB.

Enigma just bitch slapped this entire thread

There's nothing incorrect about your points, but what I'm trying to say is, the argument is being framed incorrectly. The pro-Cutler camp seems to be more-and-more on the defensive, and putting forth the "yeah but..." arguments against a growing anti-Cutler camp. But it should be the other way around.

In the first two seasons after the trade, the facts on the ground are, Denver has been in a downward spiral, and the Bears played in the NFC championship. The "yeah but..." arguments should be coming from the anti-Cutler camp. And there are some points to be made there, and the argument contains a lot of subjective angles and nuances. But overall, the pro-Cutler camp is "winning" so far, and by a wide margin, despite the mob mentality that argues otherwise.

Would you extend the "Bears played in the NFC championship" game defense to Martz, the WR's, the O-line, and others? The fact still remains that the actual accomplishment of making the NFC championship game was winning the division, beating one of the worst playoff teams in history, and then losing in a game where Cutler was terrible.
I love it when people declare a victory like it's actual evidence. The bottom line is that the Bears gave up a lot and ended up with somewhere between the 13th-18th best QB in the league and someone who has actually regressed from his time in Denver. Oh, but they made the NFC title game! Why not bring back Rex Grossman! He played in a Super Bowl! That's even more amazing.

Feel free to make a real argument and not "pro-Cutler guys are clearly right!".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

the bears offense was ranked in the bottom of the league last year and probably will be again this season, the bears were not even good last year..they played an insane amount of back up qb's and played the worst team in nfl history to make the playoffs...they also stayed very healthy... so what if they made the championship game..it was mostly defense and special teams..just like when they went to the superbowl. this team won't win shit until angelo,smith ,martz and lovie and phillips are removed.

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To which areas of the team we extend the credit for making it to the Championship game is subjective. You think Cutler was along for the ride, I think the receivers and some of the o-line were along for the ride. But as you point out the Bears' path to that game, you're overlooking that "winning the division" consisted of topping the Superbowl champs in that same division. Granted the Packers had injuries, but, you can't just completely cheapen that title.

I'm also not sold on the "they played 3rd string QB's all year" argument. The Packers also played the Lions twice after the Bears knocked out Stafford. The Bears tossed Favre around like a rag doll before Webb came in. Do you think Miami would have beaten the Bears if Henne was playing?

And that same worst-team-in-playoff-history beat Bresus the week before, home field advantage or not. Cutler managed to win in Seattle the year before. And if home field means that much, then Cutler's "bad year" so far this year must be discounted by the fact that one of his two "bad" games this year came in New Orleans, which is said to have a huge home field advantage. This is the double-standard stuff I'm talking about.

I also don't think there are 17 QB's in the league I'd rather have than Cutler. But when you say the Bears gave up a lot - yes they did, but again, break it down. The goal was to get a franchise QB... or a plus QB, or a "real" QB, whatever you want to call it - something the Bears really have never had, and which is a requirement to compete year-after-year in today's NFL. A QB with a plus arm that is durable and is a solid asset to the offense every year. Orton was not that, Cutler is. Now, typically a team would like to procure such a player through the draft, usually expending a first rounder. Sometimes those picks miss. Often when they hit, it takes a few years to develop that player. The Bears got such a player without risking a "miss" and without having to develop a rookie. There's a premium to be paid for that, and so they "overpaid" for him. They overpaid because they didn't have a better alternative.

Even when the trade happened, Cutler was viewed as a borderline top 10 QB. I think he still is. Those types of QB's are the ones that are in or near the playoffs every year. You can't get Brady or Rodgers for two first round picks.

The idea that the Bears paid so dearly, that they had to have gotten a sure Hall-of-famer and 3 Superbowl titles to make it pay off, is mis-characterizing the trade and is a completely unrealistic expectation.

This will be a common theme in this reply, but I never said that Cutler was along for the ride. I'm simply pointing out that "making the NFC title game" isn't a valid justification for anything for todays team.
I never said that the regular season games weren't deserved wins. I said that Seattle was one of the worst playoff teams of all time, which is true.
Find someone who is saying that and respond to them.
No. You don't give up what they did for a guy who isn't a top ten QB. Go look at what virtually every other veteran QB has gone for, including those outplaying him like Schaub and Kevin Kolb.
Better QB's than Cutler have been traded for much less.
Once again, go look at Schaub and Kolb, who are currently outplaying them, and try and make the case that the Bears didn't grossly overpay for what they have gotten.
Once again, I don't know anyone who is saying that. It would just be nice if we got a QB that wasn't currently sandwiched in QB rating statistics between Cam Newton and Chad Henne.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!