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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:08 am 
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I agree about the 7 game 1st round.

But "upsets" will still happen.

Cardinals shouldn't have beaten the Brewers either.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:10 am 
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Why not make two wild card teams face each other in a one game playoff? Winner gets to face the team with the best record. This would most likely mean the winning WC team would have its ace for only one of the potential five games.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:18 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I do think the first round should be 7. 5 games is too fluke prone


Obviously the longer the series the "truer" the results are going to be in a game like baseball that is all about time and repetition. But everyone knows when you get to these series that it's all about how sharp the starting pitching is at the time. I would think you have to have that in mind all season. If you're forced to ride a guy like Verlander so hard just to make the playoffs (and in this case they really weren't, but Leyland kind of did anyway) then maybe you weren't as good as people think. The goal needed to be making sure Verlander was at his best at the right time. He was at his worst.

It's very similar to horse racing. The "when" of it matters as much as anything. This is one that hits close to home. About ten years ago I had a horse named Diamond Man. He was the best three year old colt in Illinois. He won about six or seven in a row. His rival was a horse named Rattle and Rock. Diamond Man bullied him all summer. We kicked his ass at Balmoral, Maywood, and in Springfield. But the big race was in September on Super Night. It went for about $300,000 and it's what everyone was pointing for. Diamond Man went off-stride in his elimination and didn't make the final. Rattle and Rock won and was named division champion. Now I can sit here all day long and tell you how Diamond Man was a better horse than Rattle and Rock, but it rings hollow. We were all pointing our horses to the one race and we lost. I'd say the same thing about baseball.

Having said all of that, baseball is a game where the difference between the best and the worst is razor thin and can only be clearly noted after much time and repetition. That being the case, I think the teams that proved "best" over 162 games deserve more advantage than they get.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:29 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
I agree about the 7 game 1st round.

But "upsets" will still happen.

Cardinals shouldn't have beaten the Brewers either.

Yeah no problem with upsets.

I disagree on Cards Brewers. Cards are a better team right now.


Also, a 5 game series allows for a 3 man rotation, 7 gamer makes you use 4 which is a lot closer to what baseball is.


Fuck the one game playoff Greg. Thats more flukey than anything.


2 Wild card winners play a 3 game series.

Winner plays game 1 against the #1 seed the day after game 3 of the wild card round (Giving the 1 seed a big advantage on pitching).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:32 am 
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How bout the NFL system?

Add two wild card teams

Best two records in league get bye.


WC vs WC #3 Division winner vs #3 Wild card

Winners face teams with bye.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:06 am 
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I don't think they should change anything. Definitely shouldn't add more teams. Making the playoffs means something in baseball because so few teams get in. It sorta means something in football and means nothing at all in basketball and hockey. Baseball should hold on to that.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:14 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
I don't think they should change anything. Definitely shouldn't add more teams. Making the playoffs means something in baseball because so few teams get in. It sorta means something in football and means nothing at all in basketball and hockey. Baseball should hold on to that.

It would be the same ratio as the NFL

Personally I wouldnt mind going back to 2 divisions and just LCS and WS


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:20 am 
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Tony pissed me off twice last night.

Once when he had Jay bunt the runner over, taking the bat out of Pujols hands the next AB. Led to a double play.

He also pissed me off when he took Carp out for a pinch hitter. We saw how that turned out.

I'm just gonna stop doubting the guy.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:34 am 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Tony pissed me off twice last night.

Once when he had Jay bunt the runner over, taking the bat out of Pujols hands the next AB. Led to a double play.

He also pissed me off when he took Carp out for a pinch hitter. We saw how that turned out.

I'm just gonna stop doubting the guy.

Just now realizing he shouldn't be doubted? I would think he's earned a Belichek level of trust with his fans long before this.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:40 am 
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Yeah, you're right FF. I guess I just get frustrated sometimes with some of his moves. Just so he doesn't bat the pitcher 8th anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:41 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
Tony pissed me off twice last night.

Once when he had Jay bunt the runner over, taking the bat out of Pujols hands the next AB. Led to a double play.

He also pissed me off when he took Carp out for a pinch hitter. We saw how that turned out.

I'm just gonna stop doubting the guy.

Just now realizing he shouldn't be doubted? I would think he's earned a Belichek level of trust with his fans long before this.

Not quite.

He seems to have a Love/Hate relationship with the Cards fans.

Wont know what they had til its gone


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:49 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
He seems to have a Love/Hate relationship with the Cards fans.

Wont know what they had til its gone


That is exactly right. I have several friends down here that cannot stand him and have wanted him gone for a few years. I tell them all the time to be careful what they ask for they just might get it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:53 pm 
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I could see initially questioning LaRussa becuase of some of his unconventional methods but when the results are consistenly good how can they still question it?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Pujols : Steriods :: Frank Thomas : Clean


Yup


I completely agree, and I think we all know I'm Bern-stine's favorite kind of fan that loves the Cubs and hates the Sox .... never once did I even entertain the notion that Frank was on anything but another level.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Has anybody on this website ever heard of Joe McCarthy and Charles Dillon "Casey" Stengel?

Each man was the leader of seven (7) World Series Champions: McCarthy between 1931 and 1946, and Stengel between 1949 and 1960. Even if Tony LaRussa's Cardinals win this year, he would have less than fifty percent (50%) of Stengel's and McCarthy's titles (3 / 7 = 42.9%).

Here is a trivia question: What team did these legends of baseball manage?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:35 pm 
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NBA style playoffs. Top 8 records in each league get in. 1st round best of 3, 2nd round best of 5, League Championship & World Series best of 7.

This is what the playoffs would have had this year:
1. Yankees
2. Texas
3. Detroit
4. Tampa
5. Boston
6. Angels
7. B. Jays
8. Indians

1. Philly
2. Milwaukee
3. D'bags
4. Cards
5. Braves
6. Giants
7. Dodgers
8. Nationals


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:37 pm 
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The playoffs would be going on until Christmas.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:42 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
The playoffs would be going on until Christmas.

I think it only adds three games. Personally, I'd like to cut the regular season, lots of meaningless baseball played by bad teams. If they added a round in the playoffs and cut some regular season games to make up for it, I think we'd see some better baseball. Of course, I doubt the owners and their fearful leader, the Jerry's ventriloquist dummy, Allan "Bud" Selig would accept that.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:05 pm 
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stoneroses86 wrote:
Has anybody on this website ever heard of Joe McCarthy and Charles Dillon "Casey" Stengel?

Each man was the leader of seven (7) World Series Champions: McCarthy between 1931 and 1946, and Stengel between 1949 and 1960. Even if Tony LaRussa's Cardinals win this year, he would have less than fifty percent (50%) of Stengel's and McCarthy's titles (3 / 7 = 42.9%).

Here is a trivia question: What team did these legends of baseball manage?

They werent playing the best competition.

Tony is clearly the best post integration manager.





Col Angus, your plan makes me sad. That would be awful.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:46 pm 
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If LaRussa's game 1 win is any indication of his managerial superiority than this game 2 win conversely is evidence that Washington seems to be his equal.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:02 pm 
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People are furious with him for taking out Motte in the 9th

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:26 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
If LaRussa's game 1 win is any indication of his managerial superiority than this game 2 win conversely is evidence that Washington seems to be his equal.


How many World Series has Washington won?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
They werent playing the best competition.

Well, the rules of baseball clearly prohibited Joe McCarthy's teams from playing themselves. That would be impossible. There is no team alive in that era that would have beaten them.
rogers park bryan wrote:
Tony is clearly the best post integration manager.

Jackie Robinson integrated baseball prior to "Casey" Stengel ever winning a World Series title.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:21 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
If LaRussa's game 1 win is any indication of his managerial superiority than this game 2 win conversely is evidence that Washington seems to be his equal.

Not really. LaRussa manipulated the game a lot more than Washington did.

But one game is just an example not proof. Washington did get the best of him last night


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:26 am 
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stoneroses86 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
They werent playing the best competition.

Well, the rules of baseball clearly prohibited Joe McCarthy's teams from playing themselves. That would be impossible. There is no team alive in that era that would have beaten them.
rogers park bryan wrote:
Tony is clearly the best post integration manager.

Jackie Robinson integrated baseball prior to "Casey" Stengel ever winning a World Series title.

Well...it seems I was mistaken.

I didnt want to go this Route, but La Russa didnt have the Talent Stengel did.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:27 am 
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RFDC wrote:
People are furious with him for taking out Motte in the 9th

Really?

Didnt Rhodes retire Hamilton the night before? And hadnt Motte given up two sharp base hits?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:52 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
People are furious with him for taking out Motte in the 9th

Really?

Didnt Rhodes retire Hamilton the night before? And hadnt Motte given up two sharp base hits?


I wouldn't call the first hit sharp...it was a routine pop fly that would have been caught had Holliday not been playing "no doubles" deep.

I think he should've kept Motte in, but it wasn't cut and dried IMO.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:31 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
La Russa didnt have the Talent Stengel did.

You have got that right, Johnson! Can I please get an amen from the congregation?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:38 am 
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Pujols displays zero leadership after Game 2 loss

By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
7 hours, 56 minutes ago


tweet194EmailPrintST. LOUIS – The kids could handle the mess. Never mind that Albert Pujols(notes) created it. This is his clubhouse, where his rules apply and where the term leader is thrown around rather liberally considering real leaders, you know, lead. They own their mistakes, like a ninth-inning error in the World Series, and they damn sure don’t let the pups in the clubhouse, the ones in their first postseason, stand and answer questions they’re not equipped to answer.

And yet there it was, an empty locker flanked by an empty chair to match the emptiness in the air. The St. Louis Cardinals had blown Game 2 at home, and it hurt. Two sacrifice flies in the ninth inning proved enough for the Texas Rangers, who turned eight innings of despondence into one of triumph in a pulse-pounding 2-1 victory Thursday night. At the center of it was a cutoff throw on which Pujols whiffed. The ball slipped away, allowing what would be the winning run to advance into scoring position. Pujols mimicked the ball, showering, dressing and dashing before the clubhouse doors opened.

Related Video Rangers tie World Series Rangers tie World Series


Lookahead to Game 3

David Freese's view
More MLB Videos More From Jeff PassanLa Russa's genius bubbles over in Game 1 moves Oct 20, 2011 Series managers are each marvels in their own way Oct 18, 2011
Albert Pujols reacts in the ninth inning.

(Getty Images)
Part of stardom – perhaps the hardest part – is accountability. Pujols is not accountable to the media. This is not about that. Nor is it about his accountability to fans that may or may not want to know how he spit the bit in a crucial game. Pujols, more than anything, must be accountable to his teammates, those he ostensibly leads. He needs to stand up after losses so Jason Motte(notes) and Jon Jay(notes) and Allen Craig(notes) and David Freese(notes) don’t have to.

Motte, in his third full season, blew the save by giving up a bloop single to Ian Kinsler(notes) and the line-drive single to Elvis Andrus(notes) whose relay Pujols botched. Motte talked for nearly 30 minutes, tackling the same questions again and again, most of them about what this means to the Cardinals’ hopes, something better addressed by someone who has won and lost a World Series and might know.


[Video: Albert Pujols’ error proves costly]


Across the way was Jay, in his second season. He made the throw to Pujols. It wasn’t a great one. Jay said he “pulled it a little bit.” He felt bad. He executed poorly. He also stood behind it. In fact, Jay said, he had talked about it on the bench with Pujols.

“We both said we should’ve probably did a little bit better,” Jay said.

There, too, were Craig and Freese, both kids themselves, going through the ringer. Combined, Motte, Jay, Craig and Freese have less experience in the major leagues than Pujols. Together, they make about 1/10th the money he does. Also absent were Yadier Molina(notes), Matt Holliday(notes) and Lance Berkman(notes), 28 seasons of major league service among them.

They could disappear because of the culture Pujols created, one the organization enables. St. Louis manager Tony La Russa empowers Pujols to do what he pleases, right or wrong, even if it’s the equivalent of ordering the lobster-stuffed filet and sticking the minimum-wage worker with the bill. He will face no discipline. He never does. That is life with Pujols, and the Cardinals’ Omertà means nobody calls him on it.


[Related: Ian Kinsler steals bag and Game 2 for Rangers]


One Cardinals player, asked why Pujols left, shrugged his shoulders. Another question, about whether that bothered him, produced a smile. He didn’t know what to say. And if he did, he wouldn’t dare say it.

Here’s the thing: The Cardinals wouldn’t be here without Pujols. They would be a .500 team without him. On the field, he earns every bit of his $16 million and is worth twice as much. He is the most spectacular hitting talent of his generation. He might be the best right-handed hitter ever. His ability stupefies almost daily.

It is not his responsibility to be a spokesman for the Cardinals, either. Plenty of superlative players do not like engaging the media. Chase Utley(notes). Miguel Cabrera(notes). It’s understandable. Losses hurt. Talking about losses pours alcohol in that wound. The media can ask uncomfortable questions. It’s a weird give-and-take.

Until it’s not part of Pujols’ job description – and with the media money that helps keep Major League Baseball afloat and Pujols’ salary stratospheric, it is – it’s his responsibility to protect his teammates from having to swallow an excessive portion of that grief, especially when much of it is on him. Leaders do that.


[Related: Fan bets Cardinals to win World Series at ridiculous odds]


The word leader, frankly, is loaded. What is leadership? It’s not some ambiguous thing, like the Potter Stewart’s definition of pornography: “I know it when I see it.” No, it’s a set of responsibilities, the greatest of which might be doing something so others – particularly those without the proper knowledge of it – don’t have to.

As difficult as leadership is to quantify, it’s even tougher to value. The highest-paid player in baseball history, Alex Rodriguez(notes), isn’t a leader. The second highest-paid, Derek Jeter(notes), is. No leader – not General Patton – could have rid the Boston Red Sox clubhouse of its toxicity in September. Leadership is left to individual moments, defining instances – explaining away, say, a curious play in the World Series.

At first, official scorers didn’t give Pujols an error. Kinsler took a wide turn at third base, even though coach Dave Anderson held a forceful stop sign, and the scorers figured Pujols let the ball sail to the catcher to prevent Kinsler from scoring. Replays showed Pujols’ half-baked effort at squeezing the ball into his glove missed, and Andrus, who had stopped at first, continued on into scoring position and came home on Michael Young’s(notes) sacrifice fly.

“I didn’t have a real good shot at it,” La Russa said. “I heard Albert talking to Yadi about it later. I’m not sure exactly what happened.”

[Y! Sports Shop: Buy Rangers and Cardinals playoffs gear]


Tony La Russa, not sure exactly what happened? Sorry. Not buying it. He was protecting Pujols because that’s what the Cardinals have done for a decade, and that’s why he’d be best served re-signing this offseason and not going to a place where someone may dare call him out for an error. Here, they genuflect. They know no better.

Now the Cardinals head to Texas’ bandbox without home-field advantage on an unhappy flight, their streak of 16 getaway victories gone. Pujols almost certainly will talk after Game 3, because the Cardinals will tell him how bush league it looks to biff the game and peace out. And he’ll do it because when he’s not mad at himself or mad at an outcome, Pujols is rational and understands his responsibility.

In fact, that’s the saddest part. If he had cut off that throw, and Andrus hadn’t scored, and the Cardinals had pulled off a victory in the bottom of the ninth or extra innings, Pujols would’ve taken his time to shower, dressed himself carefully and stood before the cameras and notepads to talk about what a good win it was. He might not say anything interesting or of import, but that isn’t the point.

A leader leads through good and bad. And if Albert Pujols truly wants to consider himself as one, and the Cardinals continue to empower him accordingly, perhaps next time he’ll think twice before he leaves the kids to mop up his mess.

Jeff Passan is a national writer for Yahoo! Sports. He is the co-author of the new book "Death to the BCS: The Definitive Case Against the Bowl Championship Series." Follow him on Twitter. Send Jeff a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.
Updated 7 hours

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:37 pm 
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