If Rivers and the Chargers don't stop underachieving and aren't careful the Chiefs might give them a run. The Steelers are probably gonna be the 2 seed, managing a 5-2 record already despite a historically low 3 takeaways in 7 games. I'm not sure the Ravens are any good.

Agreed on the Saints though. They aren't much worse on defense, if at all, than Green Bay and New England but they've been inconsistent like everyone else in the league also.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Giants should be the slight favorite for the NFC East right now but they have just a brutal stretch coming up. They should beat Miami easily this week but then would be 5-2 facing a stretch @NE, @SF, Phi, @NO, GB, @Dal. They'll need to manage a 3-3 record in that stretch to stay ahead of Dallas and Philly IMO.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Would you have said this before their game Monday night? Do you think that game is representative of their offense?

As a Bengals fan, I would love it if the Ravens were pretenders, but it's an NFL sophomoric move to jump on the "I'm not sure the Ravens are any good" bandwagon. I think I recall the Ravens' D and Trent Dilfer winning a Super Bowl.

Well they looked terrible against the Jets also, and greatly benefitted from turnover luck in their Week 1 performance against Pittsburgh. Before Monday night I saw then as a good, not great team, that would win 10-11 games and be in the wild card. I still think that's a reasonable result to expect from this season, but Flacco is regressing and they aren't taking advantage of Rice. I don't think they are a bad team, but like I said, I'm not sure they are that good. It's not unreasonable for them to miss the playoffs this year I think. They are probably slightly better than the Jets, Bills, and Bengals but I don't know how big that gap is. Oakland is done so that will help, and I dont think the Chiefs can get above 8-8. Losing Britt has sorta been a BFD for the Titans and it looks like they are a .500ish team without him. Let's just say right now I'm not taking the Ravens seriously as a contender. The defense is there like usual, but that offense has to make some much needed adjustments.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

the first part of your post...this is why i don't understand why norv turner continues to be the head coach of that team, or any team. he always seems to inherit decent teams and they consistently underperform. there is no reason that team shouldn't have at least made a superbowl by now with all that talent through the years. and i agree about KC...strangely...but that's another up-in-the-air-down-in-the-seventh-level-of-hell division.

the thing with the saints D is that they're designed to be inconsistent. double g has them in so many crazy packages that aren't necessary and i still don't think they're maximizing all their talents...there are major deficiencies on the defensive line, and their linebackers are crap. vilma is done.

it's hard to say what their secondary is because once the line hasn't done its job, the secondary is just back on their heels all the time. i've seen some good break ups...but i've seen some really bad blown assignments, too.

on the offensive side, their running game is just as inconsistent. sean payton needs to figure out what he wants to do with these running backs. and i think thomas and ingram are the same guy.

I didn't understand them not dealing Thomas at the deadline. I would think he'd have been a huge help to a team like Detroit or Tampa.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

i thought when they drafted ingram, thomas was gone.

i'd love to see chris ivory back in the lineup. he actually gets between the tackles pretty well, and is a physical back. just very injury prone...

I respect your football acumen. Assign playoff percentages to each of these four AFC North teams:

Ravens
Steelers
Bengals
Browns

Mine are:

Ravens - 80%
Steelers - 75%
Bengals - 20%
Cleveland - 5%

Steelers - 90%
Ravens - 65%
Bengals - 40%
Browns - <1%

The Bengals defense is legit. Almost as good as Baltimore's and better than Pittsburgh since they lost Aaron Smith. That should keep them in every game. But they're really young and have to avoid losing games like @ Seattle this week to be in a position to battle teams like Baltimore in December for a spot. Regardless, they have a great future outlook if Dalton keeps playing well and improving. AJ Green is fantastic.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's an excellent analysis on the Bengals defense --- they have played some awful teams, not including the 49'ers, Bills, but they look to be good.

So, Adam Jones returns to the lineup on Sunday against Seattle. Do you think he can contribute on defense or as a punt retuner or do you think he'll be arrested first?

Yea, What do we start to think of the Bengals, Going in I thought the would be the worst team this season, but the defense is playing well, Andy Dalton doesn't light up the stats, but gets wins, and also what could be a suprise to some AJ Green is playing better than Julio Jones as of right now.

I think they have lost their 2 games by 7 points.

Schedule does start to get tougher though, @Seattle and Tennesee, home to Steelers, @Ravens, home to Browns and @Steelers.

They still could get 7 or maybe 8 wins.

Then you look at the future, All of a sudden if Dalton and Green gets the offense going and the defense keeps playing well and with the draft picks they got from the Raiders, the Bengals could start to have a bright future, I know a little shocking.

Reds getting rid of Dunn, Griffey, and Harang > Bengals getting rid of Ochocinco, TO, and Palmer.

Changes the culture.

Dalton, Green, Gresham, Dunlap et. al. are a diffrent breed (though Mike Brown is still there).

@ seattle and tennessee are gifts. home to the steelers favors the bengals, and it's hard to give the ravens the benefit of the doubt right now. home to the browns...that should be a win. and @ steelers...that could go either way.

the bengals are in a good position. they could make the playoffs, but they wouldn't get far at this point. still, it's progress.

For the Bengals to make the playoffs, there basically in a battle with 9 teams for 5 spots.

East-Bills, Patriots, Jets
North-Ravens, Steelers, Bengals
West-Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders

3 of the 9 will win a division, so 6 teams for 2 spots.

The Bengals could make the playoffs, but if they don't, it does look like a bright future in Cincy.

The Raiders are done. I'd give them about 5% chance to make it from here. The MNF game this week will show us just how much the Chiefs have turned it around.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Dolphins signed ex-Bills & Raiders' QB J.P. Losman this week, FavreFan, and there's a chance he might be pressed into action right away. Current starter Matt Moore has bruised ribs & while a blood clot situation with journeyman Sage Rosenfels has him on the non-football injury list. To say they're bleeding from all pores in Miami would be an understatement.

Literally.

J - see what I'm saying about Baltimore? Down 24-6 at halftime at home against Arizona.

The Saints inconsistency is consistent.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Baltimore's made a comeback. Winning 27-24. They must have remembered this game counted.

NO is down by 10, hope there's a comeback.

Tied up now in Baltimore. Still embarrassing for a supposed super bowl contender.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

i really need to start betting against the saints in these trap games. i could've made a fortune so far this year.

pretenders. 100%.

Contender Packers
Pretenders Everyone else

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I know they don't belong in this thread, but man, does Denver suck!

Pretty much. But Pittsburgh let it be known that they are with New England slightly ahead of the other possible playoff teams from the AFC. The Saints proved that Zack knows his team better than all the pundits slobbering over the 62-7 score last week.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

like chuck d says, don't believe the hype.

it's amazing that the bills are making a run in this division but the patriots really looked bad today.

the natti finally put the nail in the coffin for the lowly seahawks today, thankfully...that game was too close for far too long.

Cinci can't really blow teams out, but their defense can keep them in any game. I can't wait til they play Baltimore. Conversely, the Bills offense is really good as long as Fitz can keep up this pace, but their defense needs to be a lot more consistent for them to be considered any sort of contender. Fred Jackson and Steve Johnson are the goods.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Buffalo might make a small run if they can catch a good team on a bad week. They're better than everyone in the west, even with KC improving. They're probably better than everyone in the Souf, even the Titans, maybe just as good as Houston. In their own division, they can beat the Dolphins and stomp on the Jets (I'm sure Rex Ryan would get a hard on thinking about that). Their only concerns would have to really be Baltimore (inconsistent), Pittsburgh & New England (both teams have lost a step). I don't know if they'll win, but I like their chances.

San Francisco might be their NFC counterpart. They only have to worry about the Packers, who can pretty much make hotel reservations for Indy in February. Or, in their case, reserve space at the nearest trailer park.

My changes are:
AFC
Raiders - Pretenders
Jets - Pretenders
Bills - Conenders
Ravens - Contenders
Bengals - Contenders if they win two of next three (Titans, Steelers, Ravens)
Steelers - Contenders
Titans - Pretenders
Texans - Contenders

I still think the Saints are contenders.

After what happened over the weekend, the Steelers once again appear to be contenders after their big home win over the Patriots Sunday afternoon in Pittsburgh.

Even though they won in OT last night over the Chargers in Kansas City, I'm not quite convinced the Chiefs are contenders in the AFC West, let alone San Diego for that matter. San Diego might have been caught looking ahead to a showdown with the Super Bowl Champion Packers on their home field late Sunday afternoon in a game I think we're getting locally at 3:15p on the "NFL on FOX" instead of the Giants/Patriots' game in Foxborough, MA.

Speaking of the Giants, they may be leading the NFC East now after their win over the Dolphins Sunday, but I'm not quite sold on New York. Their schedule is supposed to be awfully challenging down the stretch and have a trip to San Francisco after their road game in New England this weekend. OUCH!

I think the Texans and Ravens will both make the playoffs but I can't see a scenario in which they make the super bowl, even with some luck. I'd have them as pretenders in that sense.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul