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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
cpguy wrote:
Cards name Mike Matheny manager.

That is very interesting. He had absolutely no experience either....just like Ventura if I remember correctly. I don't want Tito running the Cubs at this juncture in time and this makes it very possible.

Either do I. I'll take Maddux or Alomar from the 4 candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:28 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Colonel Angus wrote:
Cards get a new manager b4 Boston and Chicago? I have no idea why those two are still sitting on their hands.

Doug Mirabelli and Paul Bako are playing hard to get...

:lol:

rogers park bryan wrote:
Colonel Angus wrote:
Cards get a new manager b4 Boston and Chicago? I have no idea why those two are still sitting on their hands.

Really?


Has the recent activity of the two organizations led you to believe they move quick?


I think both these teams are waiting for 2112.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:32 pm 
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If I were Jose Oquendo I would quit before working for Matheny

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:08 pm 
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If you are looking for a smooth transition how in the hell do you not hire Oquendo?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:15 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
If you are looking for a smooth transition how in the hell do you not hire Oquendo?

Thats what I'm saying. I don't get this hire. I thought they really liked Jose and he had been there learning under Tony for years. Matheny to the staff with Jose as manager would make more sense IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Allow me to get all Beardown-y on your asses for a second...

My understanding was that Oquendo was the guy Pujols wanted...hire him and the chances Albert stays are greatly improved...

...then there was the matter of the Cards front office and just what they are willing to do to keep Albert in St. Louis. I saw a discussion on the MLB network yesterday that there is a group in the front office that wouldn't be broken up if someone offers him an absurd (30 million/year) contract...basically it would give them the "we gave it an honest effort but we just couldn't afford him" excuse...

...yesterday I thought that was crazy...now, with them ready to announce an unknown as manager, well, I'm wondering...

ok, not really


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Lipid that makes perfect sense.

IF they dont want to sign Pujols to a long term deal, then hiring someone other than Oquendo is the move to make.

They want Albert to leave, they dont wanna tell him to leave.

or maybe they are NOT that high on Oqeundo and the reason he was around was Pujols.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:26 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
I saw a discussion on the MLB network yesterday that there is a group in the front office that wouldn't be broken up if someone offers him an absurd (30 million/year) contract...basically it would give them the "we gave it an honest effort but we just couldn't afford him" excuse...



I heard a local sports talk show host down here basically saying the same thing yesterday. He thinks the Cards would be better off having some club come in and give him a ton of money and the Cards can say hey we tried... And in this guys line of thinking having Allen Craig means losing Pujols would not be that big of a deal. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:31 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
I saw a discussion on the MLB network yesterday that there is a group in the front office that wouldn't be broken up if someone offers him an absurd (30 million/year) contract...basically it would give them the "we gave it an honest effort but we just couldn't afford him" excuse...



I heard a local sports talk show host down here basically saying the same thing yesterday. He thinks the Cards would be better off having some club come in and give him a ton of money and the Cards can say hey we tried... And in this guys line of thinking having Allen Craig means losing Pujols would not be that big of a deal. :lol:

Craig + 28 Million dollars to spend on other positions > Pujols?

Maybe


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:33 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
lipidquadcab wrote:
I saw a discussion on the MLB network yesterday that there is a group in the front office that wouldn't be broken up if someone offers him an absurd (30 million/year) contract...basically it would give them the "we gave it an honest effort but we just couldn't afford him" excuse...



I heard a local sports talk show host down here basically saying the same thing yesterday. He thinks the Cards would be better off having some club come in and give him a ton of money and the Cards can say hey we tried... And in this guys line of thinking having Allen Craig means losing Pujols would not be that big of a deal. :lol:

While I loved what the other guy with two first names did this post season (Jon Jay will always be the original man with two first names to me) he's no Pujols...obviously.

That being said, and I can't believe I'm even typing this...I don't think moving Berkman to first and having Craig as your everyday RF would be all that horrible. Yeah, the offense will suffer...and the defense would to a lesser degree as well...but I think they could still find a way into the playoffs with that team.

So yeah, I'm not going to say "not a big deal" but it's also not the end of the world.

Better option would be to find some way to get Holliday's bloated contract off the books and give that money to Albert. Maybe I can hire my mob boss of a FF commish to take him out.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:35 pm 
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Berkman is old. I would be happy with last year and count on nothing from him in the future. The thing with Pujols is that he is going to be a bargain for the first half of his next contract and a burden for the 2nd half.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Pujlos will never again be a bargain.

He was a bargain under his last deal...even last year...but I'm guessing he's gonna pull at least 25 million, right? Unless he has a .350/45/120 year or something crazy like that, no way he's a "bargain".


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:48 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Pujlos will never again be a bargain.

He was a bargain under his last deal...even last year...but I'm guessing he's gonna pull at least 25 million, right? Unless he has a .350/45/120 year or something crazy like that, no way he's a "bargain".

If he has 3 Pujol's like years (and the year he didn't have a good year he won the fucking world series) you can not put a monetary value on his worth....but when he gets old and sucks....bad things...very bad things.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:52 pm 
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I hope the Cards give Pujols 200M+ for 7 yrs thereby blowing up their budget. I doubt FL or anyone else offers 25M+ per annum on a long term deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:54 pm 
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cpguy wrote:
I hope the Cards give Pujols 200M+ for 7 yrs thereby blowing up their budget. I doubt FL or anyone else offers 25M+ per annum on a long term deal.

If no one else offers him that much, why would they?


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:56 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
cpguy wrote:
I hope the Cards give Pujols 200M+ for 7 yrs thereby blowing up their budget. I doubt FL or anyone else offers 25M+ per annum on a long term deal.

If no one else offers him that much, why would they?

Wasn't that their offer last year?? No way they pull that off the table.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:01 pm 
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Pull it...he didn't take it because he wanted to test the free agent waters...if no one else is going to give him that deal, I wouldn't either.

5 years, 125 million...if it's any longer, front load it...


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:02 pm 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
Pull it...he didn't take it because he wanted to test the free agent waters...if no one else is going to give him that deal, I wouldn't either.

5 years, 125 million...if it's any longer, front load it...

Would make sense certainly. We'll see what they do. I hope they cave and overpay.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Lipid, this Pujols situation will be a perfect example of why the Cards are always in the hunt.

Instead of blowing the budget on Albert, they will invest it in multiple players that will keep them in the hunt. Meanwhile, some team will shoot their wad on Pujols and while it may look good for a few years.....it will eventually hamstring them later. Unless it's a Yanks/Red Sox type.

And I kind of like the Matheny hire. I'd say after this year, they get the benefit of the doubt for quite some time.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:31 am 
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Rockies turning to Sunshine State?
11:06
Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd has made no secret of his desire to add a No. 3 or No. 4 starter, and he may be turning to the Sunshine State in order to make it happen.

Troy Renck of the Denver Post says the Rockies are expected to make strong pushes for Miami's Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez and Tampa Bay's Jeff Niemann and Wade Davis.

If the reloading Marlins were to sign Jose Reyes and/or Mark Buehrle to a lucrative deal, they may be looking to cut corners somewhere else, perhaps making Nolasco or Sanchez available. As for the Rays, they have an abundance of pitching and might be willing to deal, especially with Matt Moore expected to join the rotation on a regular basis.

Renck adds that Rockies executives also have talked with the agent for free agent Roy Oswalt.




- Doug Mittler
Sizemore not close to a decision
10:35
AM ETGrady Sizemore | Indians TopEmailCommentsUPDATE: ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney writes in Wednesday's blog that Sizemore is not close to picking a new team. "For him, it'll come down to the right team, the right lineup, the right ballpark, on a one-year deal," Olney opines.

Patience could end up paying off for Sizemore. A team that loses out on a free agent bat might be willing to pay more to the outfielder as the offseason unfolds.

- Doug Mittler

--

The market for free agent outfielder Grady Sizemore is getting hotter. At least eight clubs have asked to look at Sizemore's medical reports or called to express their interest, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reported Monday night.

Along with the Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox and Indians, the list of potential suitors has expanded to include the Cubs, Rangers, Giants and Yankees, according to sources at the baseball general manager's meetings in Milwaukee. The Giants' interest persists even though they just acquired Melky Cabrera in a trade, and the Cubs see Sizemore as a potential fit in right field. Sizemore, a center fielder for most of his career, has expressed a willingness to move to a corner outfield spot.

Sizemore has appeared in only 106, 33 and 71 games over the past three seasons because of injuries. But he's looking for a one-year deal to re-establish himself, and a lot of teams see him as an intriguing bounce-back candidate in 2012.

- Doug Mittler





The pursuit of Pujols
10:23
AM ETAlbert Pujols | Cardinals TopEmailCommentsThe process of trying to keep Albert Pujols in St. Louis will kick into gear at the GM meetings in Milwaukee, reports ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick.

Crasnick reports that Cards GM John Mozeliak plans to meet with Paul Kinzer, the agent for the free agent slugger, before the end of the GM meetings. The two sides will determine if they have more common ground than last winter, when talks broke down and Pujols put off the process until the end of the 2011 season.

Crasnick, citing a source, said that the Cardinals' offer last spring never reached above $200 million. It was rumored that St. Louis offered the star first baseman a nine-year deal worth $210 million.

The Cardinals have a new manager since the teams last talked dollars, but Crasnick the hiring of Mike Matheny will not be a factor in Pujols' decision.

If Pujols were to sign elsewhere, Mozeliak told Joe Strauss of the Post-Dispatch that the club would address the defection internally rather than by joining the pursuit for fellow free agent superstar Prince Fielder.

The Cardinals tipped their hand in early September by re-signing right fielder Lance Berkman to a one-year, $12 million extension. The Cards could Berkman could move Berkman to first base and install Allen Craig in right field.

Pujols met with the Marlins last week, but our Buster Olney says it remains to be seen how serious the Fish are in their pursuit:

- Doug Mittler






Buster Olney
The Marlins' Offer

"A lot of folks in the industry are waiting to see the substance of the offers the Marlins have made. It's one thing to say you've made an offer to Albert Pujols, and it's something else entirely to tender a proposal in the range of what the St. Louis Cardinals offered in the past -- something in the $200 million ballpark."
Ortiz leaning toward Boston?
10:11
AM ETDavid Ortiz | Red Sox TopEmailComments12UPDATE: Ortiz tells the Boston Herald that if he receives an offer from another team that he's considering accepting, he will give the Red Sox a chance to counter it. "Of course," he said. "You know that. The Red Sox will always be the first option."

- Doug Mittler

--

UPDATE: The Red Sox have made Ortiz an offer, tweets Rob Bradford of WEEI.com, the man with the greatest Twitter logo of all time. (it's a photo of New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick in his usual stone-stoic glare, and the caption reads: "Let's Party!")

Peter Abraham of the Boston Glove tweets that the club planned to meet with Ortiz's representative Tuesday night in Milwaukee. To date, there have been no reports that Ortiz has met with any other teams.

- Jason A. Churchill



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said Saturday that talks are ongoing between the Red Sox and David Ortiz, suggesting that something may get done between the two sides.

Ortiz could also fit in with the Tampa Bay Rays and any of the four teams in the American League West if he isn't headed back to Boston.

Cherington added that of the club retains Ortiz, they are unlikely to add an outfielder, which would eliminate the Sox from contention for free agent Carlos Beltran. Boston's right fielder would then likely be Ryan Kalish, Josh Reddick or a combination of both.




- Jason A. Churchill
Kemp's impact on Zimmerman
10:00
AM ETRyan Zimmerman | Nationals TopEmailCommentsWith Matt Kemp apparently on the verge of a $160 million deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers, the buzz in the nation's capital is on whether the Washington Nationals would try to do the same with their own home-grown star - third baseman Ryan Zimmerman.

But Brodie Van Wagenen of CAA Sports, Zimmerman's agent, tells Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post that "there currently are no active discussions regarding a contract extension for Ryan."


Zimmerman, who has two more seasons until free agency, has been open about his wish to sign a contract that would keep him in Washington. But Kilgore says the Nationals' time frame for an extension is tighter than it seems because, if Zimmerman reaches spring training in 2013 without an extension, he will opt for free agency.



- Doug Mittler
Is $90 million too much for Reyes?
8:30
AM ETJose Reyes | Mets TopEmailComments35The Miami Marlins' reported offer of six years and $90 million to Jose Reyes just might end up being a very effective first strike.

Ken Rosenthal reported the offer Tuesday morning, and if that is the starting point, then the Mets can forget about Reyes returning to Queens, tweeted Adam Rubin of ESPNNew York.com.

Bill Madden of the NY Daily News reports Wednesday that some clubs initially projected as suitors for Reyes may now have other priorities. It may be just posturing, but Madden talked to GMs for the Angels, Brewers and Nationals, all of whom sounded like they are out on Reyes.

Meanwhile, Jim Bowden of ESPN's The GM's Office tweeted Tuesday night that Reyes has two legit offers, presumably from the Marlins and Mets.As Bowden notes, it's very, very early in the process and offers from a number of other clubs could come in before Reyes makes a decision.

According to various reports, the Mets appear very reluctant to offer Reyes a deal as long as six years. The Mets believe they will get a chance to make a final offer to Reyes before he makes up his mind, but they may not bother to do so if the price is too high, says Andy Martino of the Daily News.

- Doug Mittler



Buster Olney
Reyes seems headed for Miami

"There is an expectation they will work something out with Reyes for something in the range of five years, $18-20M a year. They are seen as the team that's going to be most aggressive and he certainly fits the style that Ozzie Guillen loves to play. He loves to have a team that runs the bases aggressively, puts pressure on opposing defenses. Reyes would be a centerpiece for that with Hanley Ramirez moving to another position."
Dodgers will pass on Prince
8:00
AM ETPrince Fielder | Brewers TopEmailCommentsAs we wait for the market for Prince Fielder to develop, at least one team has already dropped out of the sweepstakes for the star first baseman.

Los Angeles Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said Tuesday that it is unlikely his club will be able to pursue a big-name free-agent power hitter this winter, effectively ending all speculation the Dodgers will be in the hunt for Fielder, says Tony Jackson of ESPNLosAngeles.com.

Colletti hinted that the pending sale the sale of the club is a key reason the Dodgers will be forced to pass on Fielder.

Milwaukee Brewers GM Doug Melvin was scheduled to talk to Scott Boras Tuesday afternoon, presumably to discuss Fielder, tweets Tom Haudricourt of the Journal-Sentinel. Haudricourt adds that the club "appears to have mentally moved on at 1B," and that Mat Gamel will get a chance to win the job.

Fielder also will not end up in St. Louis if Albert Pujols were to land elsewhere. Cards GM John Mozeliak told the Post-Dispatch that the club would address a possible defection internally rather than by joining the pursuit for Fielder.

- Doug Mittler



No extension for Montero?7:05
AM ETMiguel Montero | Diamondbacks TopEmailCommentsThe Arizona Diamondbacks and catcher Miguel Montero have been discussing a contract extension, but those talks have stalled, reports Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic.

Montero, who had his best season as a big leaguer in 2011, earned $3.2 million for his efforts and is arbitration eligible one final time this winter.

If the two sides do not come to a multi-year agreement, Montero could approach $6 million in salary for 2012 and hit the free agent market next offseason, where he'd certainly be one of the most sought after players in the game.

There's still plenty of time, and signs that both sides are very willing, to get something done, but if it continues into the season a trade scenario could present itself.

It's difficult to believe GM Kevin Towers not coming to terms with the Octagon Sports client, likely buying out at least one year of free agency in the process.

- Jason A. Churchill


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:34 pm 
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I cannot fathom how the market is "heating up" for Grady Sizemore.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:30 pm 
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225 over nine years?

Have at him.


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:42 pm 
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The Rockies are interested in Milton Bradley. What the fuck? How is it possible for anyone to want to employ this giant piece of shit. How is its possibly possible?

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:21 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I cannot fathom how the market is "heating up" for Grady Sizemore.

He was very good before getting hurt over the last two years. If he can get it back (a decent chance) he is a top player in the league


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:22 am 
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Grady has had 2 microfracture procedure. His knee is fucked for life. Those are not procedures you come back the same from and he has had 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:27 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Grady has had 2 microfracture procedure. His knee is fucked for life. Those are not procedures you come back the same from and he has had 2.

No.

He had one on his knee. Which has been fine ever since.

The second and most recent one was not microfracture and not the same knee. It was good ol arthroscopic knee surgery which has a very high sucess rate as far as "coming back"


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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:35 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Grady has had 2 microfracture procedure. His knee is fucked for life. Those are not procedures you come back the same from and he has had 2.

No.

He had one on his knee. Which has been fine ever since.

The second and most recent one was not microfracture and not the same knee. It was good ol arthroscopic knee surgery which has a very high sucess rate as far as "coming back"


Maybe I am thinking Greg Oden with the 2. 1 is still not a great thing to have on your resume.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I cannot fathom how the market is "heating up" for Grady Sizemore.

He was very good before getting hurt over the last two years. If he can get it back (a decent chance) he is a top player in the league

Everything I am hearing is Sizemore will consider a 1 or 2 year incentive laden deal so at that price he could definately be worth a flyer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:18 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I cannot fathom how the market is "heating up" for Grady Sizemore.

He was very good before getting hurt over the last two years. If he can get it back (a decent chance) he is a top player in the league

Grady Sizemore has played in 104 games over the last 2 seasons combined, and he played in 106 games in 2009. I mean maybe he can get back to top form, but that is a huge maybe. That's why I said I can't fathom the market heating up for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hot Stove 2012
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I cannot fathom how the market is "heating up" for Grady Sizemore.

He was very good before getting hurt over the last two years. If he can get it back (a decent chance) he is a top player in the league

Grady Sizemore has played in 104 games over the last 2 seasons combined, and he played in 106 games in 2009. I mean maybe he can get back to top form, but that is a huge maybe. That's why I said I can't fathom the market heating up for him.

He had 5.5 great years before having 2.5 injury plagued years.

And he is looking for a one year deal....thats a pretty attractive option.


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