Yikes...

2012 Hall of Fame Ballot
Jeff Bagwell, 1B
Jeromy Burnitz, OF *
Vinny Castilla, 3B *
Juan Gonzalez, OF
Brian Jordan, OF *
Barry Larkin, SS
Javy Lopez, C *
Edgar Martinez, 3B/DH
Don Mattingly, 1B
Fred McGriff, 1B
Mark McGwire, 1B
Jack Morris, RHP
Bill Mueller, 3B *
Terry Mulholland, LHP*
Dale Murphy, OF
Phil Nevin, 3B/1B *
Rafael Palmeiro, 1B
Brad Radke, RHP *
Tim Raines, OF
Tim Salmon, OF *
Ruben Sierra, OF *
Lee Smith, RHP
Alan Trammell, SS
Larry Walker, OF
Bernie Williams, OF *
Tony Womack, 2B/SS *
Eric Young, 2B *
* -- first year on ballot.

None of these guys deserve to get in. Has there ever been a year where no one was voted in?

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Mulholland my guy!!

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

He was my guy on that 1998 Wild Card team. Him and Beck pitched like everyday for the last two months of that season.

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Edgar Martinez and Mattingly are the only ones you could make case for. Possibly Dale Murphy

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Wow. Gah. Mattingly was a childhood hero, so there is a part of me that wants him in even though I know he doesnt have the numbers. I might put a vote in for Raines. Yeah, might not get anyone in this year.

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If Dale Murphy gets in, it justifies Ron Santo's numbers for the Hall.

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No kidding. Bad former Cub central.

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Walker and Raines stand far above anyone else on that list.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Agree on Raines

I'm not sure about Larry Walker...his best numbers were inflated playing in Denver...and as much as I hate conditions like that being taken into account, that's what the mouthbreathers in the BBWAA look at.

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Yeah, and I guess he's under suspicion with the rest of them too. But he couldn't possibly be kept out on his numbers. He almost (I said almost, stoneroses) compares with Mantle. He was an elite defensive outfielder and a great baserunner. Even if you consider the Colorado factor, I would compare him to a guy like Chuck Klein who has inflated numbers from playing in the Baker Bowl.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I can see that...I'm not as hung up on the whole steroid thing...it was a product of the environment they played in.

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I agree. It was what it was. Everyone is under that cloud. Are we just going to keep an entire generation of players out? Or just put guys like Vizquel in? And as far as I'm concerned, he may have juiced too.

Regardless of the steroids, Palmeiro is a guy I never considered a Hall of Famer at any time while he was playing. His career is over and the numbers are all there, but I don't think he was better than guys like Will Clark or Mattingly or McGriff, and none of them belong in the HoF. I don't think Palmeiro does either.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

larkin for sure.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Palmeiro doesn't belong...that leads back to using numbers as the benchmark to determine a hall of famer. A guy sticks around long enough putting up the same numbers, yeah, he'll make the mark...when I think of Hall of Fame, I think of outstanding and memorable players...Palmerio is not one of them. Neither are Mattingly, McGriff, or Clark.

This may be my cynical nature, but the Hall of Fame as a whole is just a damn mess. So is the football HOF for that matter. To me, basketball and hockey do it right. The guys that get in, get in on the 1st ballot...Jordan, Gretzky (even though I hate him), Pippen, Ewing, Lemeiux, Savard, etc...none of this 15 years later nonsense.

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To me, a guy like that is who should be kept out. He was a really good player. So was Alan Trammell. But they're not what I'd call Hall of Famers.

It's like Santo. If he gets in there's guys like Doug Rader, Bando, Boyer, hell, even Matt Williams, Carney Lansford, and Robin Ventura that aren't that much different than he was. Was Santo better than those guys. Maybe. But it's by a razor thin margin. I'd draw my line somewhere above Ron Santo and Barry Larkin.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yankee resentment runs deep in this thread.

Don Mattingly is what baseball is all about. He should have been in the Hall of Fame a long time ago.

I got your line "right here". Santo was the best all-around 3rd basemen of his generation. Certainly one of the best of all time. He should have been in years ago.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Trammell and Larkin get credit for staying with one team so long among a lot of baseball people. Not me but some people.

Raines is still way underrated.


Oh and Jack Morris should be in with Mattingly on the What baseball is all about clause.

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Nope. Not as good as Will Clark.

He's not a true Yankee anyway. No championships.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

How is Raines any different from Larkin? They seem to me to be about the same guy. Really good player, just not HOF worthy.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He was never thought of that way when he was playing. He's the same guy as Ken Boyer.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He's the second best leadoff man ever and arguably the best base stealer.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

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when they let mazeroski in, they opened the door for all of these guys. if he was good enough to get in, mattingly, larkin, santo, raines, all of them should be let in.

The Yankees retired Mattingly's number 23 and dedicated his plaque for Monument Park at Yankee Stadium on August 31, 1997. The plaque calls him "A humble man of grace and dignity, a captain who led by example, proud of the pinstripe tradition and dedicated to the pursuit of excellence, a Yankee forever."

And He is better than Will Clark in every way. Batting Average, Defensively, Voice, facial hair....

They are pretty close. But Raines at his best was better. I dont think many players made a huge difference with the stolen base...but Raines was one of them.

How could a Yankee with no championships be anything but humble?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don