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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

No. It's not. It's fair.

Like it or not, he only played a short while both in MLB & the Negro Leagues and didn't put up enough in the way of numbers. His career wasn't memorable enough, and being the first Black member of the White Sox doesn't do much for anyone other than some WSox fans.

While he got a high number of MVP votes a couple of times, that doesn't really say much (ask Dale Murphy).

Again (maybe just) the Hall of Very Good. No shame in that.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Congratulations on the amount of hall of fame players you have had.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

+1

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And lets not forget those "all important" city attendance titles!

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Minoso has 2 more legs than Santo did.

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This is why jimmypasta gets squashed. #CSFMBWA #DrinkyAlliance

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But he was better than just very good. He clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame and the only reason he fails to reside there is because of circumstances beyond his own control.

Although Jackie Robinson had "integrated" the game in '47, there were still unwritten rules regarding how many blacks per team were practically allowed. This cost Minoso several of his prime years and he didn't get started until he was pushing 30 due to the presence of Larry Doby in Cleveland.

A strong case can be made that Minoso was a superior player to Billy Williams and even Roberto Clemente.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think if Minoso got in, his last good chance should/would have been to be elected by the special panel considering just this argument. But then again, that panel that screwed over Buck O'Neil in favor of the owner of the Newark Eagles because he wouldn't campaign for himself (or allow other to aggresively campaign for him). I'd have thought Reinsdorf would've gone to bat heavier for him then....

Realistically though, yet another flaw in his case is that no one under the age of 60-65 has an understanding of Minoso the ball player, except as the old guy who came back in a sideshow once a decade. (And didn't McDowell endear himself to S. siders for his actions in '90-91 ). Even though I recall the drum of support for remembering Minoso as a great player every decade he came back, the whole charade still seemed more comical then and sad now. And again, without having eye popping #s, the argument seems to ring hollow to me, even as a Sox (& Minoso) fan.

I actually tend to agree with you about Minoso over Billy Williams, but then again I don't think Williams belongs either. It seems to me that Billy Williams was the Jim Rice or Fred McGriff of his era, none of whom belong in the HOF.

Frankly, I think Louis Tiant is/was more deserving than all of them.

We will just have to agree to completely disagree about Clemente though.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Fair enough, RR.

I think it was Fisk and Guillen that whined about Minnie getting an at-bat in the 90s, wasn't it?
Kind of ironic considering both of those douchebags thought they should be allowed to play as long as they wanted.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

IIRC, Fisk really wouldn't talk about it, which was a statement in and of itself. No one really knew what in the hell was coming out of Ozzie's mouth. McDowell was the only understandable dumbass who would take a public negative position.

Although I did miss the irony of Fisk & Guillen until you pointed it out.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Josh Gibson goes in before Minoso

WRONG

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Fine, 2 more REAL legs than Santo did.

Feel better now, hanleyfan?

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Yeah, he did.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Funniest poster/mult exchange in a while. Well done...

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This is my signature...

Better than Williams and Clemente you're fucking daft

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Okay, I assume you feel Clemente was better than Williams, so I'll make the case for Minnie against him. Minnie's OBP was 30 points higher than Clemente's. He slugged 15 points lower, but he was playing in a park where it was extremely difficult to hit for power at that time. Clemente played in a big park too and in a tougher league in what was likely more of an era favoring pitchers. Minnie was unquestionably the better baserunner. There were both excellent defensive outfielders, although Clemente's reputation is somewhat overblown. He had a cannon for an arm but he wasn't particularly known for throwing to the right base and he probably wasn't as good going to get it as Minoso.

However you want to slice it, these guys are fairly similar players. They are just a step below the super elite outfielders of the 50s and 60s who are all in the conversation about the greatest to play the game- Mantle, Mays, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, Hank Aaron, Musial (if you want to consider him an outfielder). Billy Williams, Roberto Clemente, Yaz, Kaline, and Minnie all belong in the next group down. Still all more than just worthy Hall of Famers.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I see Jerry at Sluggers all the time with Minnie! Very close friends.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

[

Like it or not, he only played a short while both in MLB & the Negro Leagues and didn't put up enough in the way of numbers. His career wasn't memorable enough, and being the first Black member of the White Sox doesn't do much for anyone other than some WSox fans.

While he got a high number of MVP votes a couple of times, that doesn't really say much (ask Dale Murphy).

Again (maybe just) the Hall of Very Good. No shame in that.[/quote]

But he was better than just very good. He clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame and the only reason he fails to reside there is because of circumstances beyond his own control.

Although Jackie Robinson had "integrated" the game in '47, there were still unwritten rules regarding how many blacks per team were practically allowed. This cost Minoso several of his prime years and he didn't get started until he was pushing 30 due to the presence of Larry Doby in Cleveland.

A strong case can be made that Minoso was a superior player to Billy Williams and even Roberto Clemente.[/quote]


Better than Williams and Clemente you're fucking daft[/quote]


Okay, I assume you feel Clemente was better than Williams, so I'll make the case for Minnie against him. Minnie's OBP was 30 points higher than Clemente's. He slugged 15 points lower, but he was playing in a park where it was extremely difficult to hit for power at that time. Clemente played in a big park too and in a tougher league in what was likely more of an era favoring pitchers. Minnie was unquestionably the better baserunner. There were both excellent defensive outfielders, although Clemente's reputation is somewhat overblown. He had a cannon for an arm but he wasn't particularly known for throwing to the right base and he probably wasn't as good going to get it as Minoso.

However you want to slice it, these guys are fairly similar players. They are just a step below the super elite outfielders of the 50s and 60s who are all in the conversation about the greatest to play the game- Mantle, Mays, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, Hank Aaron, Musial (if you want to consider him an outfielder). Billy Williams, Roberto Clemente, Yaz, Kaline, and Minnie all belong in the next group down. Still all more than just worthy Hall of Famers.[/quote]
minnie 1963 hits billy 2711 roberto 3000 hr minnie 186 billy 426 roberto 240 rbis minnie 1023 billy 1353 clemente 1305 your daft and never ever respectable in my eyes

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Well, that's great, Walt. But I know what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to baseball and you apparently do not. Minnie lost a good eight years off his career because of his skin color. Do you want to punish him for that? The record shows him to be 25 years old in his first full season, 1951. Most people believe he was at least three years older. He had an MVP type season his first year out of the box. He got screwed out of Rookie of the Year by a fucking Yankee who didn't have as good a year. He's comparable in every way to the guys I mentioned. Everybody talks about Brock for Broglio being a bad trade. You can blame Billy Williams for that deal as much as anyone. The Cubs knew they couldn't have both of those butchers in the outfield together.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Santo had 2 good legs as well.....

Oohhh, Frank called me a Hanley fan...really taking shots now!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Minnie the defensive wizard



Errors Committed as OFscapy
1953 AL 10 (1st)
1955 AL 9 (2nd)
1956 AL 8 (4th)
1958 AL 8 (2nd)
1961 AL 13 (2nd)

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Hey turdsicle Robinson and Doby started in '47 ....8 years???

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Just looked at his stats. Pretty impressive.

Clemente and Williams

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Minoso.

"Minnie lost a good eight years off his career because of his skin color. Do you want to punish him for that?" No, JORR, I want to give him extra credit for that and consider his coulda, shoulda, woulda numbers.
"The record shows him to be 25 years old in his first full season, 1951. Most people believe he was at least three years older." Which has exactly what to do with the discussion?
"He got screwed out of Rookie of the Year by a fucking Yankee." Poor Minnie! Let's take the award away from the Yankee and give it to Minoso because he lost 8 years of his career and lied about his age, too.
"The Cubs knew they couldn't have both of those butchers in the outfield together." Williams was a decent fielder and a plus arm. Minoso had 86 errors as a LF in his short career and Williams only 77 in a much longer career.
Then again, I'm talking to a guy who says "I know what the fuck I'm talking about when it comes to baseball," who thinks that Roberto Clemente was merely a good player.

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Host of the weekly "We Fish ASA" podcast
Weekly columnist for the Northwest Herald
Bi-monthly columnist for Illinois Outdoor News magazine
Former host of The Outdoors Experience on WIND and The Great Outdoors on CLTV
http://www.wefishasa.com

You didn't see any of them play did you?

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.