I just don't see how he could come to such a conclusion. I highly doubt he has ever seen the guy. So obviously he's using some sort of comparable. I really don't see how a guy without a plus pitch could possibly put together that kind of K/BB ratio- even in A ball. Those numbers scream giant fastball or trick pitch. I guess we'll see soon enough.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He said 89-93 MPH on the fastball while he changing delivery.

I have no idea what he will become.

_________________

Sounds like a trick pitch, doesn't it?

Maybe I'm just a sensitive White Sox fan, but it seems to me that Baseball Prospectus is predisposed to denigrate anything done by the White Sox and laud anything done by the A's. For example, Swisher and Teahen were vaunted members of the "Moneyball" draft and proof of Billy Beane's genius. That is, until the Sox traded for them when they suddenly became bums that Kenny paid too much for.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't know that I would call that a trick pitch.

_________________

Again, I have no idea what the guy looks like, but you don't strike out 10 guys per walk without a) deception or b) overpowering speed. If we're going to accept the report that he tops out at 93 mph, it's got to be "a".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm not saying he'll be bad.

I don't know. I just don't think changing delivery points would qualify as a trick pitch.

_________________

Okay, I get you. Maybe calling it a trick pitch isn't right. But there have been plenty of guys that lived on quirky deliveries. His numbers are impressive. That's all I know about him.

And I don't think Santos was that great. He has a lot of nasty stuff, but I think he's short when it comes to dealing with pressure. He got tight out there a lot last year, especially at the end. Not sad to see him gone.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah but I get suspicious about guys like him, and Marmol. Guys who convert to pitching for the first time when they are already pros. They can throw some nasty pitches because they don't have wear and tear on their arms - but that's both a pro and a con. It's a con because you don't know how long it will last until their arms have had enough of it. Also, with Marmol, his mechanics get screwed up very easily, and he has trouble getting them back because he has no baseline, no history of correcting them, as he hasn't spent most of his life developing them.

It will be the year without a Santos Clause

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

It sounds like KW is rebuilding,but going about it the wrong way! Being stuck with Peavy,Rios, and Dunn and dumping Santos and no Buerhle. I think Ventura by All-Star break will be longing to be beat up by Nolan Ryan

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

DKnobler DKnobler
White Sox rebuilding: If they get what they want, Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Beckham all will be gone by opening day
2 minutes ago

Yeah its obvious he's stuck with those guys.

Trading a closer isn't a big deal, especially for a team that will most likely be suck next year.

_________________

Danny Knobler of CBS. Pretty good.

Don't forget the stupid Gio Gonzalez for Nick Swisher fiasco. "Kenny" should be gone. I feel for you Sox fans. You could have gotten more for Santos easily. What a joke.

Gio for Swisher wasn't the bad deal. It was when they traded Swisher to the Yankees for nothing. They pretty much gave Gio away.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

gio for swisher was a bad deal..gio is a #2 starter in the a.l.
while swisher is an average at best right fielder with decent power but a 7 or 8 hitter...the santos trade is dumb because santos is an above average late inning setup man or closer traded for a prospect who may never amount to anything on the big league level.

_________________

Gio is a little lefty pitching in a pitcher's paradise. He's just a guy like a hundred other junk-balling little lefthanders. Swisher is far better than a seven or eight hole hitter. He's a high OBP guy with power. The bad trade was when they got rid of Swisher in a panic because Guillen couldn't handle him. Ozzie always insists on being the biggest douchebag in the dugout (unless Oney is at the game). So it's interesting to see what will happen with Hanley Ramirez.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

great , he gets on base and is slow as fuck, he does not have much range in the outfield and gio gonzalez ...he is 25 years old..been in the majors 4 seasons and has improved every year ..the guy is a good pitcher

_________________

Gonzales is a serviceable pitcher, nothing more. I'm more upset at giving Hudson away in a deal Kenny fucked up chasing Dunn.

Swisher isn't "slow as fuck". Anyway, you sound like one of those guys who doesn't want to "clog the bases" with runners. That was Guillen's philosophy. Maybe that's why his teams didn't score.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

hudson is a better pitcher i agree...you do realize the "little lefty" is bigger in stature than nicky the swish, who hit a whopping 23 home runs last season in the shortest right field i have ever seen.

_________________

Gonzalez is a lot better than serviceable. Top ten in ERA last 2 years, 8th in WAR last year, 4th in K's per 9, etc. And the K's translate in any ballpark.

"Kenny" needs to be fired but "Uncle Jerry" is to loyal.



What a joke this franchise has become. They win 1 title and they think that will last forever. Watch the attendance plummet next season.

Don't care about attendance.

Rebuild the fucking thing. It's been held together with tape and string for 6 years.

_________________

Good luck with that. They have arguably the worst farm system in all of baseball.

Hence the need to rebuild.

_________________

We can agree to disagree. I'm not impressed by low ERAs in Oakland, a huge park with giant fields of foul territory. And of course strikeouts are affected by the park. There are all kinds of things that play into making a park pitcher (or hitter) friendly from the hitting background to the way the shadows fall. Do you think Brandon McCarthy got better in Oakland? Or did the park help him?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So they now somehow figure out how to draft and develop MLB caliber talent after being unable to do so for years? Face it, it's time for "Kenny" to go bye bye or be removed from the role of GM via the Uncle Jerry "promotion" route.

Don't disagree.

That doesn't change the need to rebuild the organIzation.

_________________

I buy the A's part. They definitely give Beane a ton of rope, but not the white sox stuff. Dont they openly admit that the white sox make them look silly most often?

Those are pure numbers they are using and it always has the Sox like 10 wins less than they get.

They just trust the numbers too much.

"Mix in a viewing of a live game, Poindexter!" is what I would say to those types.



I really want to agree with you on the trick pitch thing. One thing that occurs to me though is they say he has great command of 4 pitches.

Now thats impressive in itself. But looking at the numbers, more the low walks then the high strikeouts, if he really is throwing four pitches and has control enough to walk 32 in 236 innings maybe thats the "trick"

Minor league pitchers are lucky to command one pitch all the time and the second pitch most of the time. A guy with four could dominate minor leaguers.


236 innings kind of a lot for a minor leaguer right? Even a guy without the career mileage of being a pitcher?



This kid is truly a facinating case. CANT WAIT to see how this turns out.

(The interest in him is epic and not at all random.)

His road splits are solid: 3.62 ERA, 87 K's in 92 IP, .240 avg against. The guy can pitch. McCarthy was better because he stayed somewhat healthy although Oakland's park will help any pitcher. Guys with hit and miss stuff like Gonzalez can win anywhere which is why he is coveted by many teams. "Kenny" traded him twice and has nothing to show for it.

But it seems they want to use numbers scouting to support Beane's decisions (we're not selling jeans) but when the Sox get a guy (Molina) suddenly numbers scouting is gone and we're talking about his "stuff".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don