No I still put some stock in Wins.

And people here have called him an ACE.



Zambrano and Lackey are considered good over the careers by pretty much everyone

Not once have I doubted that "a good" pitcher loses more than he wins.
You are argument/reading fail.

Just define good then. And bad.
And what you are trying to achieve.
Maybe you fail at explaining yourself as well?

Your using of terms such as good and bad are so simple.
Makes sense you use them...

Assuming you meant "wins more than he loses", you are making your own case for the importance of wins.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Who knows if he would even be back without the three bad contracts. The Rangers, The Yankees, The BoSox are going to drive up the price big time. He'd have to take a major hometown discount to stay here. I would much rather have them spend the money on Danks, locking him up should be the Sox number one concern. The guy is a great pitcher, his fielding independent numbers were very good this year and it wasn't his best by anymeans.

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" THis poster said it's 90% that Bernstein goes national. He put a percentage on it. " - Beardown

Calling Danks "great" is really overstating things. Danks is the guy for whom you can get the most in return. Now is the time to move him. Floyd is the most valuable guy the Sox have at the price. Floyd, Sale, and a reasonably healthy Peavy are the nucleus of a pretty good rotation.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'd much rather have Danks than Floyd.

Gavin is maddeningly inconsistent.

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Losing Buerhle and Danks combined with relying on mr. inconsistent, mr. unproven, and mr. injury sounds like a recipe for a long, frustrating year.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Floyd has an ability to dominate batters that Danks doesn't have. Also, when you look at the money, keeping Floyd just makes more sense. Personally, I'd move them both and bring Buehrle back. I doubt that will happen. And from a strictly baseball perspective, signing Buehrle for the money he's going to get is probably not a great idea. You can likely get similar production from a guy like Chen or Bedard without breaking the bank.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

and exactly why Philly got rid of him. So when someone wants to tell me how great Don Cooper is, please hold it back.

And per a number of sources, Floyd is an idiot. Yes, old time dumb! So it should be to no surprise this guy loses concentration.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Yeah isn't that where the "Gavin World" stuff comes from?

Cause he's country dumb?

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Gavin has a lot of value and I think the Sox should trade him and sign Danks to an extension. Gavin is 28 yrs old and he's made at least 30 starts and pitched 187.1 innings the last 4 seasons. He's also signed to a very team friendly contract (2yrs/$16.5M). A lot of teams would like to get their hands on a pitcher like him and the Sox could get a couple nice players for him.

Take a look at a the difference in production between Philly and Chicago. Maybe it was the great chicago water that saved his career.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Saved his career?

He was 23 at the time of the trade. A young pitcher with control problems learned control...its not that rare.

He never started more than 11 games in Philly.

Keep perpetuating the myth though.

False.
It is more of a matter of, "I have not denied your claim."

I still don't think #56 will leave the Sox.

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Well, he's gone. Signed with the Marlins for 4yrs/$56 mil.

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"Why do so many people need help? Life's not that complicated. You get up, go to work, eat three meals, take one good s***, and go back to bed. What's the f***ing mystery?" - George Carlin - Complaints & Grievances

No way.

He's either gonna resign with the Sox or retire.

I refuse to believe otherwise.

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Are you sure?

See you a SoxFest.

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If you don't judge my do-rag, I won't judge your red flag

Bye Bye Buerhle.

Just found this thread. Any news on Buerhle? Did he retire?

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Yes

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miami-marlins-mark-buehrle-four-year-58-million-contract-details-120711

_________________
"Why do so many people need help? Life's not that complicated. You get up, go to work, eat three meals, take one good s***, and go back to bed. What's the f***ing mystery?" - George Carlin - Complaints & Grievances

It is good to see Buerhle back with the Sox again. Nice move.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I'm surprised that there aren't more Cubs fans who constantly downplayed how good Buerhle is celebrating that the Sox were smart to let him go.

I haven't seen any of them yet talk about how smart it was of Kenny to move on.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It was the right move for the Sox. I just don't value Buhrle that highly.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Yeah. It was just the right time to do this.

If you were doing this is a "moneyball" style argument you'd say that he was overvalued for what it would cost to keep him.

It's not a coincidence that he ended up signing with the team that seems dead set on overpaying for talent in order to have the "We are going to be really good for 1 out of every 7 years" and then get rid of all of them season.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Mark is no Carlos Zambrano that's for sure!!!

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^^^^Complete opposite of the typical Sox fan insecurity and inferiority complex that is so often displayed regarding the Cubs.^^^^

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When did "inferiority complex" become your go to response? I don't think it's an inferiority complex to point out that during his career that Buerhle was routinely put down for being overvalued and yet when Kenny lets him walk instead of overpaying him that the same people aren't praising Kenny.

I don't know if you ever said that Buerhle was not as good as people thought but others certainly did. If you didn't, then why even respond? I wasn't referring to you.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Buehrle is still a pretty good pitcher, but he's not going to be one by the end of his contract. Beating up on bad National League teams who haven't seen much of him will make him look way better than he is for a year and cause Sox fans to have conniptions, but it's probably a long-term gain not to be saddled with his contract.

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