Did Frank get booed at the Cell last year when he came back as an A?

Frank was a two time MVP. He had almost 450 homers as a Sox. And a career batting average over .300. Please, Grace doesn't deserve a number retirement over Thomas.

Moreover, Thomas is going to the Hall of Fame and you even said Grace shouldn't. So if your a HOFer you certainly should get your number retired.

If Fisk got his 72 retired after all the acrimony, Frank will get his 35 retired when the time is right (assuming he's done ripping KW & the Sox).

Frank will be a HOF'er Grace never will. It helps that Frank is perceived as the "clean" guy in the juiced era.

Don't care either way if the Cubs retire 17. Grace is in the top 5-10 for almost all team offensive categories, which may be enough to get that nod. It would help if he came back to the team in some capacity - maybe after Santo calls it quits.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

I thought we were talking about Coztanza there for while...

If there was a CSFMB HOF,
I would never vote anyone in on the first ballot.

I think Coztansa would get his number retired in Bozeman, but no HOF vote from me.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

you guys are forgetting a few things.

Grace was loved here.

Frank was loathed....except by Sox fans who just watched him and didn't listen to what he said.
Frank could have played 2nd fiddle only to Jordan in this town and he blew it, which is why Grace gets his number retired and Frank doesn't, and as such, Frank makes the HOF and Grace doesn't.
might I add that Thomas still is my favorite Major Leaguer.

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@audioidkid

A lot of incorrect and stupid stuff gets posted on this board. There may be posts that are equally stupid but there is absolutely nothing that tops this doug.

You should be embarrassed for even mentioning Mark Grace in the same breath as Frank Thomas. It was silly when Harry said Grace was better than Sandburg. You one upped him by declaring that he is more worthy of number retirement than a two time MVP who played for the team for more than a decade.

At his best (and that best stretched for over half a decade) Frank Thomas was mentioned in the same breath as Ted Williams. At his best Mark Grace compares favorably to J.T. Snow.

I was there and no he did not. IIRC he mentioned that he got choked up by the warm reception.

maybe "deserve" is the incorrect word. but, nobody can tell me that Frank was more loved by the cows than Mark Grace was.
It simply isn't true. Frank won't get his number retired as long as Reinsdorf is alive, Kenny is the GM, and Ozzie is the Manager. But, He's a first ballot-er imo.

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@audioidkid

I'm a Cubs fan and have to completely agree to dolphin's post.

Yea, for some reason I thought Coztanza got boo'ed when he showed up in his Athletics jersey he got from Triple Threat Sports.

Not only was Frank better, but I think the Cubs current first baseman Derek Lee is better than Grace. He is just as good defensively and has more power.

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May 1, 2007 - CSFMB Civil War
“Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it.”

Harry was a boob for comparing positional numbers - a second baseman should NEVER be in the discussion, numbers-wise, as a first baseman. The fact that there is an argument on the numbers means that Grace is a TERRIBLE hitting first baseman, even if it is a comparison with one of the best second basemen of all time.

Doug, I swear on all that is holy that if you try to make another argument like this, I'll get my passport to go to Canada and slap you. Thomas is the best hitter in franchise HISTORY. If you think there is another hitter whoever wore White Sox colors should have their number retired, Thomas deserves it more. He was a two time MVP, should have been a three-timer (Giambi even said as much, as I recall), and was the most dominant hitting first baseman/designated hitter for almost a decade. He finished in the top ten among MVP votes NINE times, and the top five SIX times. He hit more home runs in his first 6 seasons than Grace did in his 16 year career. Thomas is a career .300 hitter.

Grace being a good guy doesn't make him anything more than an anomaly among professional athletes. That alone doesn't merit anything more than a thumbs up.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

And Frank Thomas will get his number retired within 3 years of retiring, barring anymore fights he picks. And even then, they'll still have to retire his number at some point. If I were Nas, I'd make it my signature.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Yes Grace was loved by Cubs fans. That's not a shock. He banged most of the girls at Wrigley, bought Beers for the frat boys in the crowd, plus he had this "choir boy" look so the older people at Wrigley loved him and would never imagine the things he was doing with their daughters. LOL.

Reinsdorf is a lot of things, but dumb is not one of them.
He will give Frank his day cause it's good for business.

Remember he stayed above the whole name calling issue and allowed KW to be the bad cop. I would have said after the Fisk release on the road, and his subsequent reaction, the two sides would never reconcile, but they did and 72 is retired.

Anyway I think the Sox should retire #8 for Vincent Bo Jackson.
Chumps like Everett & Cintron shouldn't diminish his legacy.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

I wish they would, but his career in the Central wasn't even the best he played for a team in that division, much less the league. Man was he awesome though....I remember the same day I heard the rumor that the Sox might get Bo was the same day the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed. To this day I'm not sure which one I remember because of the other.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

You don't have to recite numbers to me Paul. I was watching him hit home runs when you were in 4th grade.

It seems all of you are missing my point.
...again "deserves" was the incorrect word.

Reinsdorf still has his moments Rob...

Getting a jersey retired is akin to a popularity contest nowadays. Does every guy in the HOF have his jersey retired by the team he went in on? No....they don't.
Why not? It seems like criteria to making the Hall for some of you.

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@audioidkid

doug, you're wrong. frank thomas in the early 90s was putting up numbers on par with the best hitters EVER. sure he was never anything special with the glove, but a guy that drives in 100 runs, scores 100, walks 100 times, hits over .300, and 30 HRs for something like 5 or 6 consecutive seasons doesnt deserve his number retired?!

sure, frank won about as many playoff games as grace did (2005 excluded) but that doesnt tarnish his legacy one bit. from say 92-94 he was one of the top 2 or 3 hitters in all of baseball. he deserves to have his number retired more than ron santo...maybe even more than pudge fisk.

he'll get his number retired i say within the next 6 or 7 years, and he is without question a first ballot HOF'er.

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For the record, I was taller than in fourth grade than you are now



Teams use it to show respect to guys who don't necessarily have HOF numbers, but did a lot for the franchise. The only thing Mark Grace did for the Cubs was leave a lot of Winston butts in the walkway between the dugout ("dugout") and clubhouse ("clubhouse") that players ("players") had to step over. Other than that, he was an average player who did his job - last I checked, that does not merit a parade.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

doug, scottie pippen was not all that popular in this town among any circles, and his #33 adorns the rafters at the UC.

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JESUS CHRIST!
WILL YOU GUYS FUCKING READ WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU?

Franks "deserves" to have his cock sucked on national t.v. by a harem of 18 yr. old girls for his exploits the first few years in the majors. He should have gone down as the greatest hitter of the 20th century, but he was an asshole 90% of the time he was here. The 10% he wasn't, he was injured....
By being a prick, and jersey retirements being popularity contests as so proven by comments regarding Santo et al, on MJH yesterday, only Whitesox fans, such as the few of you pounding me, believe Frank is jersey retirement worthy.

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@audioidkid

So what are you saying, Doug?

doug did you see my scottie pippen comment? he was a grade A asshole most of the time too...but his number is hagning from the rafters

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I don't get it. Doug, are you saying that Grace deserves to be in the Hall of Fame?

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

I typed that last post in the hopes Doug's next response would actually SHOW the point where he has the aneurysm.

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Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. ~ Benjamin Franklin

has anybody seen my remote?

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Paul...you were probably taller than me while you were in the womb.

Frank. Pippen was a hell of a lot more popular than Thomas ever was.

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@audioidkid

I'm not positive, but I think Doug's point is that Reinsdorf and Williams won't allow the Sox to retire his number because Franks was injured a lot.

For Christs sake it's under the mattress!

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Stu-Gotz


300,000 million equals $300 billion. For that kind of money, the Sox could get themseves every player on every MLB roster and all their ballparks too. Would that be enough to find somebody who can hit in cold weather?