Baby McNown is consistantly the most insulting person in these types of threads.
I think he might be a nice guy... hard to say. I rarely read a post in which he isn't being completely insulting.

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mcnown and belvidere aren't liberals, they're just ideologues like reardon and such. a true liberal would have no problem getting into an actual debate, and actually know what they were talking about in the history of what they believe in; same thing with a true conservative.

the whole "this president sucks" mantra is just an indication of the childish behavior "political" discussions succumb to.

if they could all keep their petty spats in the politics section, it'd be a nice small step toward making the board more readable.

+ a trillion, which incidently is the national debt.

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Bump. For signing the NDAA into law.

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So much for being concerned with civil liberties.

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FF, just out of curiosity, what is the main issue you take with the bill?

It nullifies the Bill of Rights. It brings us closer to a dictatorship and allows US citizens to be treated like prisoners of war.

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Wasn't it largely considered a "Republican bill?" If it is, both sides have failed, and we are screwed.

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Sort of. There's really no difference betweens Dems and R's anymore though. Both parties are banking on the purposeful ignorance of the citizens to not notice that though. The fact that the same people that criticized Bush for the Patriot Act are cheering this move by Obama seems to suggest that it's working.

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Obama has been more like Bush than I ever thought he would be.

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I don't disagree, sadly. While I feel it may be too early to accurately judge or assume the possible ramifications following the signing of this bill, it has the markings of bad news all around.

People laugh that off and say "yeah theyre all the same" then they go back to voting for mostly D's or mostly R's


Bad.

Yes, very bad. It has allowed both parties to systematically destroy the Bill of Rights and our basic civil liberties, all while successfully convincing their base that the other guy is worse.

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2 sides

Government

People

We can only hope that Obama's intentions were good in the signing of that bill. That's about it.

Nice to see Ivan is for US citizens being able to be thrown in jail forever without trial.

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Leave facts out of it.

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I literally just finished reading that article.

Just to be fair - and before the NDAA is completely raked over the coals - while 9/11 may have been executed by foreign terrorists, they still needed American citizen contacts in order to be successful.

I'm not a Constitutional law expert, but I believe that the burden of Constitutionality ultimately relies on the Supreme Court and not the President. Obama is free to veto any bill he wants but it's not his job to view it that way. Let them decide.

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Well said.

Obama signed it? Ron Paul won't ever sign a bill?

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That article sure did. The facts are that this bill is shitting on the Bill of Rights, 4th and 6th amendments specifically.

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I can see why you'd go with sarcasm, since you can't argue with my actual response - especially as a big Bush critic.

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Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Not a fucking clue.

I'm not hitched to any wagon, and I have no undying devotion. He's been a terrible president.

I also don't see a better, viable alternative at this point.

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I wasn't a big Bush critic and I was even against those pushing to have Cheney arrested. Your posts read like Panther's most of the time. I can't say I wasn't surprised by your sharp turn.

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My posts never read like Panthers and of course you were a Bush bashed in 07-08 before your guy started acting just like him as President.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul