How so? I'm applying your very sound method of evaluation to other players in the NFL.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Whatever, FF. Deflect away. Hope you have fun watching the Packers on Sunday! Oh wait..

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I'm sorry you lost this time Rick. Maybe you should try to contact Tebow for tips on how to win more often.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not going to pick an arbitrary number.

But, I'll say this, when 2 of the 5 losses are because Tom Brady threw for 690 yards and 8 TDs, I'm going to take a good, hard look at the defense.

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You know me like that.

10/30 - Lions - Defense gave up 31 points
12/18 - Patriots - Defense gave up 41
12/25 - Bills - Defense gave up 19
1/1 - Broncos - Defense gave up 7
1/14 - Patriots - Defense gave up 45

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I think FF might be the only somewhat serious sports poster to actually think Tebow is any type of real QB at all. I'll chalk this up to excessive ingestion of hallucinogens I guess.
Tebow might not be in the top 40 QB's in the NFL right now. He can move, but he can't throw the fuckin ball and when he does it's like a floating horse abortion.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's fair.

However, when you also looked and saw that in 5 of the 8 wins that the defense gave up 15 or less points you'd start to see that in 9 of the 12 games that the defense was actually either really bad resulting in a loss or really good resulting in a win.

You know, or it could have been a QB who threw for about 150 yards a game.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He's just FavreFanning.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So me and Dr. Ken aren't somewhat serious sports posters? I honestly think Tebow gives you a better chance to get to the playoffs in the NFL for an entire season than Kyle Orton.

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Your second statement answers your question.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The same QB who ran for another 75 yrds/game and protected the ball. Here's another stat -

Record when Tebow threw a pick - 1-3
Record when Tebow didn't throw a pick - 7-2

Maybe it all works together. And it works with Tebow.

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You know me like that.

I think he has potential to become a good QB. I think he's a below average starter as of right now but I would say he's in the top 40. Once you get past 15-20 the quality starters declining rapidly.

Edit: It appears Dr Ken believes Tebow could be good too, and I believe his sports opinions are generally respected. I suppose Rick will just say hes Dr Kenning though.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So, don't turn the ball over and you are more likely to win. Before Tebow I never heard that.

How about you find the Broncos record when Tebow either threw or rushed for a TD and when he didn't throw or rush for a TD. I bet they won more the more TDs he scored.

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I believe he was also illustrating that Tebow has more than twice as many games without throwing a pick than he has with one or more.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I missed the part where Kyle Orton led the Chiefs into the playoffs. I hate doing this because I actually like Orton and think he's a starter in the NFL but Tebow's skillset gives you a chance to win because of his legs and how it sets up the deep ball. Just because a guy calls Tebow the savior of the human race then his sports thoughts are invalid. Thats deist.

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I guess that I expect a first round QB pro bowler to be better than below average and "capable" of being a good QB before I say he can beat out Orton, who did more with less expectations during his career.
Oh, and orton can throw a football. That's another plus on his side. What's Tebow going to do when he loses a step at age 29? Hope he learns in the next 4 years what he couldn't over the last 24?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Well, there was that.

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You know me like that.

Who gets credit for the Playoff win? Tebow? Defense?

Broncos.

_________________
You know me like that.

Did you miss the part where he led the Bears to the playoffs with lesser expectations in his rookie year rather than in his second year?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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Like I said I think Orton is a solid NFL starter. If I was starting a franchise from scratch I would take Tebow over Orton because I believe his game gives a team a better chance to make the playoffs. I would rather have Jay Cutler over either of them.

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Arent you demanding kind of alot considering he has played less than 20 games? Eli was pretty bad by most reasonable criteria at the same point in his career. I guess its a good thing the Giants didnt completely write him off also?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So if Oakland wins that game and the Broncos go home you would have drastically changed your opinion?

The Tebow stuff just seems irrational. He went 7-5 in the regular season! He's great at his job and it's alright to completely ignore just how obvious it is that he currently can't play QB.

I doubt last year that people were saying that Mike Martz and Jerry Angelo were great because they went 11-5.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nobody here is saying he is great. You're just pulling out the classic Rick argument staple of exagerrating the other side's argument so that it looks more irrational. Debate what Phil said, not what you wanted him to say.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Someone asked whether I'd want Orton over Tebow and the answer is yes, I would. I don't think Tebow is good. I find him barely serviceable. Did you watch the playoff game against the Pats? Wow. And the Pats don't exactly have a top notch defense.
When your first round $11 million pick is starting yeah, I do not believe I'm "demanding kind of a lot" by saying I expect him to be better than below average and "capable".

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is all very entertaining, but I fear it is taking away precious time that we could all be using to praise Mr. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. for the gifts he offers to us all every Sunday (minus bye weeks).

Please remember to drop your offerings in the collection basket when it is passed.

Thank you.

#fullpatriotmeatballmode

Big Ben's injured ankle.

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So you would've written Eli off then?

I saw the Pats game. Did you see the Steelers game?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

To your first point... . You cannot be serious.


To your second... I did. And I get your point but did you see how shitty the Steelers played that game? That might have been the worst performance I'd seen in years frmo them. Dude, I thought Tebow was pretty average that game. He had a lot of help, couple pretty long plays for TD's that bumped up the rating but the completion % was still way too fuckin low and the balls he threw were... terrible. I'll acquiese that Tebow put up numbers but I'm not ready to say that was a good game.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014