I think you're wrong about a lot of stuff you're saying about testing. Its an extremely inexact science.

And no, he didnt acknowledge steroids were in it. His whole case is "who knows what the hell was in it because this guy took it home with him (normal) over a weekend"


Have you ever taken a drug test? I assume you have. Everything is supposed to be offiicial, sanitary, by the book, etc. The fact that the urine sample sat around just speaks to how wiilly nilly the MLB process is.

If it was an "extremely inexact science" I'm pretty sure that it would never happen.
I honestly don't think he is denying there was synthetic testosterone in there. He is denying that it was there because of him. It's just simple chemistry that it was there. He would be stupid to deny it.
I understand, and he used that to get off. I just don't think the fact that it sat in a refrigerator untouched for a weekend changes the results for me who is just some guy in the public. If I was an arbitrator or on a jury I'd have to consider it more.

Let me put it this way. I still think it's likely that he failed a drug test for reasons of his own doing. If he was setup for it then I'll change my mind. We'll see if the guy who set him up gets sued or criminal charges. That would change things. If this just goes away Braun just found a way to get away with it by a technicality.

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But its not either or


Its not

A) He took PED's
B) Someone is framing him.


There are a ton of outside reasons that can contribute, thats why drug testers are so militant with the process, to eliminate any possible comprimising of the specimen

Brick, there is a report out there that the guy didn't even put it in the fridge. Now, I don't know if that matters or not, but I would think there is a reason they want it refrigerated.

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You ever been doused with warm piss?

It stinks!

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No, and I don't want you telling me some kind of Ugie story either.

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How is it not? The only reason that the chain of custody matters in this case is if it was tampered with. It's not like cold refrigerators and urine creates synthetic testosterone. As a normal guy just watching the thing play out I am allowed to try and explain what could have happened. The only plausible scenario I see here is that it was tampered with or he was guilty.

I can only come up with one way that it could be compromised by sitting in a refrigerator.

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Why did my Lloyd Braun thread have to die?

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and my Carol Mosley Braun thread?

Braun should give a big bonus to his PR staff. He made it seem like the entire system was terrible when in reality, the only reason he got off was that a sample that was not tampered with was left in a refrigerator over a weekend. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that synthetic urine doesn't magically show up by being placed in a cold place. This was the only thing that Braun argued. He only argued that this violated protocol, which is his right. He didn't argue tampering. He didn't argue that the physical results were wrong. He simply lawyered up and got off on a technicality. He then had the audacity to go out and make a public defense completely different than his actual defense and call the system "fatally flawed" which not only pretends like something bigger than a technicality is what got him off and also makes baseball a joke once again because if the testing is truly "fatally flawed" then it's no better than the previous era of drug abusing players.

So, it's pretty simple. Baseball fans have two choices. The first is that Braun did in fact test positive and only got away with it because of a technicality. The second is that the system is "fatally flawed" and there is no reason to think that baseball isn't filled with guys cheating and the whole game is tainted. After all, Ryan Braun, who has become an expert on the process, has told us all that MLB drug testing is a failure.

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I assume there is still a good portion of the league taking things that are untestable like HGH

I agree that the MLB drug testing policy has proven to be a failure in this case, but for more than one reason.

First, the fact that what sounds like a very simple process was not followed by a third party obviously shows a problem in the policy as a whole. Something as minute as an employee not FedEx-ing a urine sample should not be enough to completely negate test results. Innocent or not, we really won't know for sure now regarding Braun.

Second, this whole ordeal reminds us that the blanket ruling over what substances are and are not allowed still needs some work. Should the policy be so strict that any sign of any hormonal difference be cause for punitive measures? If the difference in Braun's testosterone level was due to a medical treatment (which really doesn't matter anymore), then should that be grounds for suspension if detected? Surely any player has the right to seek the best possible medical treatment available to treat a condition or disease.

More questions exist than agreeable solutions, and therefore the policy is far from where it needs to be.

What are you talking about Ugie? This was a relatively minor technicality. It's pretty simple. In the future, it will be FedEx'd faster even on a weekend.

As for him being treated for something, that was not what got him cleared. It was a technicality.

The system is fine. This wasn't even considered a false positive or an incorrect test. It was simply a mistake by one guy that was highly unlikely to actually make any difference. Being in the cold for 48 hours isn't going to put synthetic testosterone in there.

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If it was infact synthetic urine, I agree. As far as I know it was not stored in a fridge the whole 44 hours. It was put in a tupperware container and put on his desk.

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That doesn't matter. Its due process. The shipping violated the rules that MLB and the MLBPA agreed to, so you have no choice but to throw it out. Its the same reason why sometimes things get thrown out of court. The sample wasn't shipped within the 24 hours when it clearly should have been and could have been. Nobody except Braun will ever know if that sample was clean or not.

The system is fine when it's rules are followed, in this case they weren't.

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Right, it was a relatively minor technicality that ultimately made the entire process worthless. Braun got off because some other third party dropped the ball on doing his job. I don't know how others feel, but to me that doesn't exactly sound like a pristine process. At the very least it could use a couple minor revisions in order to insure that a relatively minor technicality would not be enough to throw the whole test out.

the system is very flawed and has been since testing began..why use urine at all?..why not blood or hair? the mlb test will always be a step behind the balcos' of the world. the only way i see improving the test would be a hair and blood sample to be stored and tested at a future date when the mlb tests can detect the newest drugs.

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The sample was dirty. Even Braun didn't argue it wasn't. It was a failed drug test.

I understand why it was thrown out just like I understand why OJ is not guilty and why other people get out of things. However, Ugie seemed to think the process was flawed. It wasn't. A mistake was made that was relatively minor. It happens. Braun got away with it because of it, which is his right. However, he really shouldn't be believed because his legal team found something that didn't matter.

That was basically what MLB said after the Braun said his statement. Braun didn't even argue the test. He simply argued a technicality which would have resulted in the test being wrong. Synthetic testosterone doesn't just appear because a box sat on a desk or in a refrigerator instead of sitting in a FedEx warehouse.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The other thing is, you can't argue the results. You have to go after the process, it is the only way to beat it. Like I said, I am happy he is playing, but there are still questions that need to be answered.

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I don't know that and you don't know that, so quit talking in absolutes. There are questions for sure, but you do not know it was a failed drug test, period.

Braun said "That substance never entered my body."
Sounds like he is arguing that it was a clean test to me. Maybe he ate some fat free yogurt that actually contained fat and it skewed the results.

So, I'm done. Have fun with this thread BRick.

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I agree they need to make sure that the package is mailed ASAP but I don't think this is an indictment of the process. Errors can happen with anything but there is no reason to even believe the test results were wrong. They just didn't have the correct protocol for delivery. From everything I've read, synthetic testosterone isn't going to show up because it doesn't get to a FedEx location within 6 hours.

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Does urine turn into testosterone if it sits around a while or if its stored at a certain temperature?

It can elevate levels, but not Synthetic Tosterone from what I understand. If it would have just been elevated levels of testerone that is one thing, but supposedly this is synthetic.

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Then why in the world do they use urine to test for these drugs? If they are so volatile, it shouldn't be used.

Yes, we do. What do you think he was suspended for?
That isn't what got him off though. He didn't argue that. He argued about chain of custody and then afterwards made a completely different case. He didn't even argue the sample was tampered with which I would have respected because that is the only way I can come up with for why he failed it if he didn't use it. I just don't buy the fact that synthetic testosterone showed up in his urine, wasn't tampered with, and it was just a mistake and it's somehow proven that it was because some guy didn't take it to FedEx quick enough.

If you want to believe that Braun didn't fail a drug test that is your right, but it just doesn't add up to me. Hopefully Braun fails another drug test and we can know for a fact that he is a cheater.

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Great question, if it refrigerated there shouldn't be a problem. The problem would lie if he left this sitting out for 44 hours like they are claiming, there is no excusing that stupidity. Especially somebody who has done this before, he totally fucked up.

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Right, and I agree that the sample itself would not have changed over time. Testosterone just doesn't grow in Brewers urine, no matter how much Miller Lite they drink. But that's not what I'm arguing.

As I said earlier in the thread, I imagine a policy change or revision will be implemented to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. While it seems like a simple technicality, it was still enough to change the final determination of Braun's punishment. That alone is reason enough for the MLB to revisit the current process, or at least I would assume.

Piss is at about 98 degrees when it comes out. What should it matter if it is refrigerated at that point? I find it ridiculous that piss turns to testosterone at room temperature when it doesn't at body temperature or refrigerator temperature. How do they ship it then? In a Coors Light truck? No way that stuff is at "proper" temperatures during shipping.

I totally agree with Frank. I was not there, so I do not know the full story about what happened, just like everybody except for Braun, the collector and the collector's son.

It would be nice to have answers but we may never know. I will always have my doubts as will most, but saying that....

PLAY BALL