I'm not sure how anyone can consider Melo a top 10 player currently. I would have someone like Deron/Rondo/Westbrook in the 10ish range and those three are definitely better players than Melo.

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Carmelo Anthony is a difference making player. Consider what the Denver Nuggets were prior to his arrival. He also was one of the better players on the various Olympic teams that he participated on. The media and a lot of fans are on his back because he engineered a trade out of Denver. He was not the reason that the Knicks were losing though he took most of the blame. That was the product of a coach who did not properly recognize the personnel on own team. The whole "Linsanity" hype machine had much more to do with the Knicks losing than Carmelo Anthony.

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Huh?

They went on an 8-game winning streak with Lin while Carmelo was injured.

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They had the easiest schedule in the league at the time. As soon as Lin had to match up with better guards he got tattoed. It is no accident that the new coach has taken the ball out of his hands, not excepted his turnover tendencies (as D'Antoni did) and they are winning. They are also beating better teams during this stretch Philadelphia, Atlanta than what occurred during the whole Linsanity craze yet there are people still bashing Carmelo Anthony. It was stupid to hand the ball over to a guy that glorified D-League call up. A lot of guys have had there exceptional nights against Jeremy Lin but it was Carmelo Anthony that got criticized for not playing defense. Check the numbers

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They beat Dallas and the Lakers during that stretch. Those were quality wins. They lost to the Nets the night Melo came back.

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This isn't a Lin vs. Carmelo debate. It's a Carmelo vs. "Just get Carmelo the damn ball and let him work" debate.

Goff treated Carmelo like he earned the status of a Kobe or Lebron or even Rose. Carmelo has played on average to below average teams being the featured guy. Get Carmelo the ball and let him do his thing hasn't worked well since college.

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You do have a point.

After all, the biggest concern was whether or not Carmelo would "adapt" to the whole Linsanity movement.

It was a no-win situation for Melo. If the Knicks continued to win, then he was no longer the "best" player on the team. If they started to lose, then Carmelo obviously didn't adapt well.

Lin's turnovers and teams growing wise to his game would be lost in the shuffle while Melo got blamed for everything.

Carmelo has taken a bum rap for the Knicks struggles and conversely Lin has received too much of the credit. The Knick resurgence under Lin occurred during a period in which they had the easiest schedule in the league (check the schedule) As soon as the schedule and level of point guard improved Lin was exposed. Carmelo Anthony is taking heat because of last year's decision regarding impending free agency. At least he allowed Denver an opportunity to receive something in exchange for exiting the team. Everyone is quick to jump on the doesn't make the team better garbage but does anyone remember what Denver was prior to him joining the team. Is anyone paying attention to what Denver is now. The Knick have not drastically improved under him but it is too early to throw the towel in on them. As it was way too early for D'Antoni to hand the team over to a b-rate guard one step removed from the D-League. It's funny how Woodson has figured out the error of D'Antoni's ways and the Knicks are playing better ball with Anthony leading the way. The Anthony detractors however are still holding to the fallacious consensus that he is hurting the team

This whole argument is stupid. With or without Melo, they still lose in the first round, and are most likely swept.

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But then how do you explain the wins against Los Angeles and Dallas?

You seriously need to listen to what this thread about.

The point is that Carmelo has done nothing to have a strategy of "Just get the ball to Carmelo and let him do what he does". It hasn't ever been a winning formula. He puts up good numbers, and he's a really good player, but it just hasn't worked. Stop comparing him to Lin. Lin just happened. We have a major body of work on Carmelo that shows that he can't just put a team on his back and make them among the elite of the league. His style has put up some impressive numbers but his teams haven't been impressive. Is that just bad luck? Maybe. Is that because of his style? Maybe.

The point is that Goff seems to think that just getting the ball to Carmelo is a roadmap for success in the league. When has that ever been true?

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Rick, do you feel that Melo is the best player on that team?

Thanks. Too much of the narrative became about all of the teams that missed on the guy. He put up some good numbers against bad teams. Has anyone been checking his output during the last say 20 games. Everyone is debating whether Carmelo Anthony is top ten player which is debatable. Is Jeremy Lin who everyone was extremely comfortable with handing the team over to even top 20 at his position?

Yes.

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Then is your point that Carmelo Anthony isn't good enough to take the most shots in a game, or is it that the best player on a team shouldn't be shooting the most?

My point is this: Goff was likely stating that Melo is the Knick's best scoring option, so he has to be the one to shoot the most. His past at Denver or anything else he's done up to this point doesn't matter; he's the best option the Knicks have.

What the hell are you talking about?


1.) Nobody is hyping Lin up anymore. Everyone had their fun and it's settled down.
2.) Denver's record is significantly better than New York's since the trade.
3.) The Knicks went on a little run for a few games after Woodson took over, but it was primarily due to Amare's resurgence, not Melo's. The last few games the Knicks have looked very average.

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My point has nothing to do with taking the most shots in a game. Your best player likely will no matter how you run your offense. I am not saying any player should be shooting more than him. I'm saying that the Knicks can't run their offense simply to get Carmelo shots. It hasn't worked.

That would be a bad point because since coming back from injury he's been shooting between 10-20 times a game. In fact, in the last 8 games, which they've won 7 times, he's shot over 15 shots once. They also haven't won a game he had over 20 shots in since the injury.

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So even though we agree that the Knicks' best player is Carmelo, and it is likely that the best player will have the most shots anyway, running the offense through that player isn't the best option?

I'm just asking for clarification sake, because to me it sounds contradictory.

Yes. The Knicks are better when Carmelo isn't taking 20 shots a game.

Run an offense and let Carmelo get his shots in the flow of the offense. Running the offense through Carmelo Anthony hasn't ever made a team elite even though the numbers Carmelo put up are pretty good. It's not like this is a rookie. We have seen Carmelo for years. Impressive individual statistics but average team results. I don't know about you, but "get the ball to Carmelo Anthony and let him do his thing" doesn't seem to be an offense that works.

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Ok, but what NBA team isn't going to run their offense through their best player?

The Nuggets had some weird system last year where they had virtually equal distribution among players, but that was because they traded their best player, the guy whom this thread is about.

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I don't know what exactly you mean by "run their offense through their best player" but most NBA offenses don't just attempt to give it to their best player and let him score. Now, there are isolation plays run from time to time depending on matchups, but often it's not even the best player they run that for but it's the biggest mismatch.

Are you telling me that all NBA teams simply attempt to give their best player as many shots as possible? I don't think so.

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The OKC Thunder.

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Not that it's the authoritative stat, but Carmelo has never had a season in the top-10 in the NBA in PER.

You're probably not going very far in this forum with any stat that suggests Buck Williams, Reggie Miller, Mark Aguirre, and Alex English were all significantly better players than Dennis Rodman, tricky.

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You mean the same one that up until last week suggested Lin was better than Kobe? And also said Rubio was the 33rd best PG in the league?

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Obviously, because PER doesn't really measure defensive value well, particularly defense that doesn't show up in stats. Carmelo isn't a good defender, which only helps my case - he's purely an offensive player and even his offense isn't very efficient. I figured that would be easily inferred by anyone halfway intelligent that read my post, but I guess not...

Sorry, I won't "go far in this forum," I was hoping for an award of some sort?

It wasn't a shot at you tricky, it was a shot at those of us who are crazy enough to believe Rodman was better than those guys. JORR thinks those guys he listed are better than Rodman.

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My apologies, then.