He's a back of the rotation guy on a good team. I have no problem with Danks. He just isn't that good. He pitched just well enough to lose. Isn't that exactly the same thing you hated about Vazquez, Frank?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

John Danks is the losing pitcher in this 3-2 loss to the Rangers. 13 K's, and 7 of them from James Gordon Beckham & Brent Morel combined. WOW!

Today is but a mere hiccup on the road to the Division championship.

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I'll bet anyone right now that Dunn finishes the season with more homers than Fielder.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I hated Javy because he crapped down his pantleg multiple times during the stretch run in 2008. Every time the pressure was, Danks stepped up and delivered. Javy failed them time and time again.

Hang this L on the lack of offense, not on John Danks. You are usually smarter than that, Jorr.

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Certain runs count for more at certain times?

If a pitcher gives up less 2 or fewer runs, he's pitched well. Whether he wins or not.

"Run support" is not a myth.

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It was a day to forget for Brent Morel...4 K's in the #2 hole, plus an error at 3B. Gordon Beckham had 3 K's along with a single. Those 2 had 7 of the White Sox 13 K's today in the Rangers' 3-2 win. WOW!

I see what JORR is saying. I don't necessarily agree, but I see what he's saying.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

What's your wager?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You said this already, SHARK. One post with these numbers is plenty.

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Me too. I just disagree with it.

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Frank, it's bad already...

SHARK, quit bitching. You sound like a Cubs fan. It was one goddam game. 161 to go. As I said I this thread more than once to you already, take it easy!

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Of course it is. It's just the runs given up by the guy(s) that beat you head to head.

The game doesn't occur in a vacuum or in separate component parts although advanced statistical analysis causes a lot of otherwise intelligent people to view it as if it were.

Are you saying all two-run performances are equal? I know you're not. Danks pitched okay. Ultimately, he blew the game after his offense- which was probably stronger than the opposition today- had tied the game for him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Channeling my inner-spmack:


I'd love to see Frank vs. SHARK become a thing...

_________________
Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I don't know? How much do you want to go for?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I know it's one game...I'm fine. The one guy I'm worried about is Ranger...

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Love me some SHARK, he was just very annoying and whiney in this thread.

Your posts do not come off as you being fine.

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The meatball callers are ready to bitch & moan to Ranger on the White Sox Radio Network.

The first caller is dogging Paul Konerko for not running out a pop-up? Huh?

For those guys who disagree with me regarding starting pitchers and what makes a good one, I'd like to ask a simple question.

If the pitchers were not allowed to know the score and were kept in a "Cone of Silence" while their team was on offense and then brought out to pitch without knowing any of the conditions of the game, do you think the results would be the same?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't disagree with your premise. I disagree with your fist post, in which you implied that today's loss was Danks' fault.

Your "cone of silence" reply is something different alltogether and really has nothing to do with what happened today.

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I believe that the pitchers would pitch differently. But that doesn't make run support a myth.

If a pitcher with a 2.00 ERA was 3-15, would you consider him a bad pitcher.

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That isn't evidence that he's a good one, that's for sure. It's a bad year. The ERA is incidental.

Yeah, a guy can get unlucky in a game. He can get unlucky in a few games. But when it's a constant habit, I'd suggest something other than luck is at work.

I'm not sure that's the case for Danks, but thus far it seems to be. He's a guy with good stuff getting mediocre results. I don't hate John Danks. I don't even think he's overpaid in today's game. And I'm not sorry the Sox signed him. I just wouldn't call him a very good pitcher.

"Run support" is just the ERA of the opposing pitcher(s). When it's consistently less than what you're allowing it means you're getting outpitched. There may be rare circumstances like with some recent Seattle teams where your offense is radically worse than anyone you face, but that certainly isn't the norm. The difference between the offenses of most big league teams is razor thin within the space of a single game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What if a bullpen guy was 0-6, but had 45 holds, a 11:1 K/BB ratio, and an ERA of 1.20. Bad year?

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JORR if a pitcher has a 2.00 ERA, he's gonna be in contention for a Cy Young award regardless of his record.

That's damn good.

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Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young with a record of 13-12

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My hypothetical "cone of silence" speaks to the pressures of pitching a big league game. There's a reason why Matt Thornton can set down Hamilton, Cruz, and Young in the eighth but not the ninth. General statistical analysis makes no distinction. I think the prevailing view is that it's a small sample and merely coincidence that he's failed so often trying to close out games. I don't share that view. Do you?

The same thing can be said for starters. I certainly wouldn't say today's loss is solely Danks' fault. There are at least nine or ten players in every game. But the two starting pitchers have a greater effect on the game than anyone else. That's why the betting lines are based on them.



A reliever is a different animal. Decisions are absolutely meaningless for relievers. I'd look at WHIP, and to a lesser degree, strikeouts.



I doubt that a 3-15 pitcher would be considered for the Cy even now, but I understand your point and agree that the way the numbers are viewed has changed. That doesn't mean the current view is the correct one, however. I absolutely disagree that a 2.00 ERA in and of itself is good or bad for a starting pitcher. Nolan Ryan lead the league in ERA while going 8-16. That's a bad year any way you slice it. Yeah, he had a low ERA, but the guys he faced had a lower one over two-thirds of the time on the days his team faced them in the same park, with the same weather, the same hitter's background and the same umpire.



I probably would have voted for someone else, but I do understand that he was an exception in pitching for a monumentally awful offensive team.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Cecil?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."