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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Bruce Weber has a message for the Illinois fan base that helped run him out of Champaign last month after his Illini missed the NCAA tournament three of the past five seasons.

Believe it or not, it's "thank you."

Weber, who has since been hired by Kansas State to replace Frank Martin, delivered his message to Illinois fans via a full-page ad in Sunday's Champaign News Gazette. The ad features Illinois and Kansas State logos separated by a basketball that houses the following message: "Thanks to everyone in the Illini Nation for a memorable nine years. GO ILLINI & GO CATS! Coach Bruce Weber."

The advertisement is proof Weber deserves his reputation as one of the classiest coaches in college basketball. Not many coaches would make such a gesture after leaving a program on good terms, let alone less than a month after being fired.

Weber compiled a 210-101 overall record in nine seasons at Illinois, but he won just two NCAA tournament games after leading the Illini to the national title game in 2005. By the time his team was midway through a stretch of 12 losses in 14 games to end this season, Weber's fate was a near foregone conclusion.

Perhaps the breakup between Weber and Illinois will end up being a positive for both sides. Illinois has an up-and-coming young presence in former Ohio coach John Groce and Weber gets a fresh start at Kansas State with plenty of talent still on the roster.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/bruce-weber-classy-gesture-illinois-fans-130017848.html

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:09 pm 
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How much is a full page ad in the Champaign paper? Like 20 bucks?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:22 pm 
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I don't know, I only read Smile Politely magazine.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I don't know, I only read Smile Politely magazine.


Well played. Your fast becoming one of my favorite posters.

In any case, it was a classy move. It's not the money, it's the thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:26 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I don't know, I only read Smile Politely magazine.


Well played. Your fast becoming one of my favorite posters.

In any case, it was a classy move. It's not the money, it's the thought.

I agree, it was a classy move.

It was just me taking a shot at a small town newspaper, that's all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:27 pm 
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spmack wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I don't know, I only read Smile Politely magazine.


Well played. Your fast becoming one of my favorite posters.

In any case, it was a classy move. It's not the money, it's the thought.

I agree, it was a classy move.

It was just me taking a shot at a small town newspaper, that's all.



And I liked it. I went to U of I for one year and hated it. I had to come back to the Burbs and go to UIC. That is a dumpy town, but it's a lot of fun to party......

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:02 am 
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Agreed, it was a classy move. I never had any problem with Weber being a nice guy,
his main problems were recruiting and coaching up his guys. Still.... good way to leave
town.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:06 am 
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he should apologize for a 55-66 conference record while getting paid all that money.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:11 am 
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312player wrote:
he should apologize for a 55-66 conference record while getting paid all that money.
...and Illinois fans should apologize for putting him at a disadvantage right from the start. He was destined to fail eventually given that at first he "wasn't Bill Self" and then when he did what Bill Self never did at Illinois he "just won with Bill Self's kids".

Ultimately, I think that explains most of what happened at Illinois. He couldn't capitalize on the Final Four run because his own fanbase wasn't giving him the credit for it, and eventually he had to recruit worrying about keeping his job to placate the fanbase.

It was the right decision to get rid of him because the damage was already done, but the tenure of Bruce Weber should be a warning to all fanbases on how not to treat a coach.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:16 am 
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nah...timeline is all fucked up....illinois fans were behind this guy ...it was couple years later that they realized weber peaked and can not recruit or coach like self...i think everyone knew self was a great coach and weber was not as good as self..but had high hopes after the final 4 run with selfs' players that weber had potential. only one man to blame here..the guy who recruits the players and coaches them.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:18 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
312player wrote:
he should apologize for a 55-66 conference record while getting paid all that money.
...and Illinois fans should apologize for putting him at a disadvantage right from the start. He was destined to fail eventually given that at first he "wasn't Bill Self" and then when he did what Bill Self never did at Illinois he "just won with Bill Self's kids".

Ultimately, I think that explains most of what happened at Illinois. He couldn't capitalize on the Final Four run because his own fanbase wasn't giving him the credit for it, and eventually he had to recruit worrying about keeping his job to placate the fanbase.

It was the right decision to get rid of him because the damage was already done, but the tenure of Bruce Weber should be a warning to all fanbases on how not to treat a coach.


I'd agree with all of that. And the real irony is it appears they just hired a younger version of Weber.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:20 am 
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312player wrote:
nah...timeline is all fucked up....illinois fans were behind this guy ...it was couple years later that they realized weber peaked and can not recruit or coach like self...i think everyone knew self was a great coach and weber was not as good as self..but had high hopes after the final 4 run with selfs' players that weber had potential. only one man to blame here..the guy who recruits the players and coaches them.
"He just won with Bill Self's players" was a pretty standard statement from pretty much the day after the Final Four.

Lots of hurt feelings that Bill Self would leave Illinois and they took it out on Weber for some reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:25 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'd agree with all of that. And the real irony is it appears they just hired a younger version of Weber.
They do say that you "don't want to follow a legend, you want to follow the guy who followed a legend" so it could work out well. I'm still not sure what Bill Self did at Illinois to get the hero status that he still gets. It seems like people considered him a better coach at Illinois because he went to a place where it's fairly easy to win a national title and then won one.

You can see it in this thread. 312player just said that Weber couldn't recruit or coach like Self. You don't think Weber couldn't do that well at Kansas?

What would be the great irony is if Weber creates a pipeline to the Chicago area. If Kansas can do it then Kansas State should be able to pull some other recruits.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:34 am 
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I don't see how anyone could call Self a "legend" at Illinois. But he was certainly beloved. I guess that comes down to personality.

I think Groce will be fine at Illinois, but I don't think he'll be any better than Weber. I get that Thomas wanted his own guy. The way this season went allowed him to do that easily. But I don't think the program moved forward by dumping Weber. But who knows? Maybe he's a dynamic guy.

I do find it kind of silly that people suggest he can recruit Chicago because of D.J. Cooper. If you think recruiting Chicago is critical, I don't think D.J. Cooper is evidence a guy can do it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It seems like people considered him a better coach at Illinois because he went to a place where it's fairly easy to win a national title and then won one.


I would disagree its fairly easy to win a national title at any school and it certainly isn't easier at Kansas. They have only won 3 National Titles and Roy Williams never won one there. I would agree the schools name and storied program helps recruiting but to say its easier to win a title there is not true. This year's team was not even close to their most talented in recent years and they made it further than they should have just because the nature of the tournament. I still think the KU team with Raef LaFrentz and Paul Pierce and Lester Earl was by far their most talented team of the past 20 years and they lost to Rhode Island in the second round of the tourney. Man that was a shitty day :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:56 am 
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You think it's a coincidence that there are 4 or 5 schools that are pretty much always in seed 1-3?

I'd put Kansas with North Carolina, Kentucky, Duke, and then either UCLA/Indiana as a place where it's much easier to win a national title.

UCLA has struggled recently, but over the last 10 years they've still been better than pretty much anyone else not in that group.
Indiana has that potential, but since Bobby Knight left they've been above average with one really good tournament run by an above average team.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:12 am 
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it is a fact..self is a better coach and recruiter ..no sure how anyone can disagree...if kansas is so easy to win at ..why no ring for roy williams until he left kansas?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:20 am 
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312player wrote:
it is a fact..self is a better coach and recruiter ..no sure how anyone can disagree...if kansas is so easy to win at ..why no ring for roy williams until he left kansas?
He had multiple chances. I'm not saying that coaching Kansas makes you a lock for a ring. I'm saying it's significantly easier than just about anywhere else besides a few other schools. It's not a coincidence that Kansas has won like 90% of the Big 12 championships since 1991 and they are constantly a high seed. The program is a major advantage.

If Self is a better coach, why couldn't he get Illinois to the Final Four?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:22 am 
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he could have and would have imo...but he left for a better job

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:27 am 
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312player wrote:
he could have and would have imo...but he left for a better job
The same answer is valid for Roy Williams going from Kansas to North Carolina.

Kansas is a national historic program and has been since you or me were born. How could it not be easier to win a national title there than just about anywhere?

Kansas has been a 4 seed or higher all buy 2 years since 1990. 4 seeds are statistically much more likely to win the national title with every number higher than that raising it. There is no question it's easier to win a national title at Kansas at all but a small amount of programs.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:31 am 
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i would agree with you if... self stayed at illinois for another 12 years and was still falling short

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:38 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm still not sure what Bill Self did at Illinois to get the hero status that he still gets. It seems like people considered him a better coach at Illinois because he went to a place where it's fairly easy to win a national title and then won one.


It is because part of the fan base actually thinks they are a top tier program. So when Self took them to the title game and then won one at KU they have something to hang their opinion on and say, "see I told you we are a top program."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:41 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm still not sure what Bill Self did at Illinois to get the hero status that he still gets. It seems like people considered him a better coach at Illinois because he went to a place where it's fairly easy to win a national title and then won one.


It is because part of the fan base actually thinks they are a top tier program. So when Self took them to the title game and then won one at KU they have something to hang their opinion on and say, "see I told you we are a top program."


But Self never took the Illini to the title game. I highly doubt that if Groce gets the Illini into the final eight next season, Weber will get credit for it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:42 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I'm still not sure what Bill Self did at Illinois to get the hero status that he still gets. It seems like people considered him a better coach at Illinois because he went to a place where it's fairly easy to win a national title and then won one.


It is because part of the fan base actually thinks they are a top tier program. So when Self took them to the title game and then won one at KU they have something to hang their opinion on and say, "see I told you we are a top program."


But Self never took the Illini to the title game. I highly doubt that if Groce gets the Illini into the final eight next season, Weber will get credit for it.


But in the minds of some of the fanbase Self did because it was his players.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:09 am 
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312player wrote:
nah...timeline is all fucked up....illinois fans were behind this guy ...it was couple years later that they realized weber peaked and can not recruit or coach like self...i think everyone knew self was a great coach and weber was not as good as self..but had high hopes after the final 4 run with selfs' players that weber had potential. only one man to blame here..the guy who recruits the players and coaches them.


Weber was getting barbequed right from the start. The players didn't like him. The fanbase was restless and irritated with the loss of Self. That's why Weber had "the funeral" to try to get the memory of Self out of the players and fanbase's minds.

It wasn't until Williams came back from his broken face and they started to win that people called off the dogs a little. Then, he had a magic season that bought him about 2 more years of a grace period before it all fell apart.

I don't think Illinois fans were ever "behind this guy". They were mollified from about 2005-2007 but he was never beloved.

Illinois fans loved Self because he was Shaka Smart a decade ago. He was "the hot new coach" of the moment and he chose Illinois. Smart would have gotten the Self treatment as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
. Smart would have gotten the Self treatment as well.

I dont think Shaka needs a toupee just yet


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
312player wrote:
he could have and would have imo...but he left for a better job
The same answer is valid for Roy Williams going from Kansas to North Carolina.

Kansas is a national historic program and has been since you or me were born. How could it not be easier to win a national title there than just about anywhere?

Kansas has been a 4 seed or higher all buy 2 years since 1990. 4 seeds are statistically much more likely to win the national title with every number higher than that raising it. There is no question it's easier to win a national title at Kansas at all but a small amount of programs.


I would agree its easier to make the tournament and be one of the best 64 teams in the country, but I don't think it means you have a better chance to be a national champion. The tournament doesn't always mean the best team wins, that's the beauty of single elimination tournaments, upsets happen. And often to Kansas :x Again they have only won 3 national championships since 1952 - not exactly numbers supporting how easy it is to win there.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:19 pm 
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jackref wrote:
I would agree its easier to make the tournament and be one of the best 64 teams in the country, but I don't think it means you have a better chance to be a national champion. The tournament doesn't always mean the best team wins, that's the beauty of single elimination tournaments, upsets happen. And often to Kansas :x
The NCAA champion has been a 5 seed or higher 2.2% of the time. Otherwise, it's been all 1 through 4 seeds. Kansas has been a top 4 seed almost every year since the 90s regardless of who was the coach.

jackref wrote:
Again they have only won 3 national championships since 1952 - not exactly numbers supporting how easy it is to win there.

Only 3 in 60 years? Only 5 schools have more than 3 national championships since 1952. There are only a few teams that are easier to win a title at than Kansas.

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