In the last 11 games, Carmelo Anthony has gone for over 25 points in 8 games. The Knicks are 4-4 in those games.

Yesterday, this show seemed to be celebrating the fact that they were right that getting Carmelo the ball is a secret to success.

No, it's the secret to an amazing run to a 7 seed.

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Brick, I say this while figuratively scratching my head:

In your opinion what the hell went wrong with the Knicks this year?

Going into this season, they were on my must-watch list. I thought this would be the year they leapfrogged Boston and Orlando and became the legit 3rd best team in the East.

This was just a very strange season with their slow start, and then the Linsanity craziness, the Melo/D'Antoni rift, the brief resurgence after Woodson was brought in, and the rumors of Melo and Stoudamire clashing. It's all been very odd. I thought they'd be much better than they are.

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The Knicks roster is built for three different types of teams. When you throw together a mish-mash like that, of course they are going to suck.

They blew the Carmelo trade. He wasn't going anywhere else but because the owner is an idiot they gave up a lot to get him and the whole teamed turned into a bunch of individuals. Even a relatively good draft wasn't enough.

People miss out on the Lin thing. It wasn't that Lin is a great player. It's that the team functioned like a team instead of a series of individuals. Carmelo is easily one of the best scorers in the game but he actively hurts the other players around him by making the offense completely one dimensional. Amare is useless with him. Lin can't do his thing. Even young players with potential like Shumpert get taken out. Now, when Carmelo goes off for 43 points the team looks good(and wins like 50% of the time still) but it's not good basketball. The Bulls know this. The Heat know this. The Thunder know this. The Knicks either don't know or have no other choice because Carmelo can only play one style.

I think most of the players don't like playing with Carmelo because they are basically just side characters with the Carmelo show and he gets angry when they try and play a team style.

It's not Carmelo's fault. He's really good at what he does, but what he does just doesn't win. He'd be amazing if he had a player like Rose to play with and he bought in, but the Knicks don't have a player like Rose who can match the star power of Anthony. I guess if they somehow got Dwight Howard, it could work. Otherwise, I think the Knicks are destined to be the worst team in the league with a lot of talent.

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The Knicks are 15-5 since they let go of a coach that thought it was Ok to run their offense through a guy that was just called up from the D-league. Also It is not like Jeremy Lin did not dominate the ball. He was not a real point guard and everything in their offense was screen roll Jeremy Lin. The Knicks are playing their best basketball of the season right now and part of the reason is because the offense runs through Carmelo Anthony. Forget about what the Goffs and Bernsteins of the world think though they are right on this one. Mike Woodson believed that the team was better off if the offense ran through Carmelo Anthony. He told the team that when he first got the job. Right now they are the third or fourth best team in the eastern conference and they are doing without two players that most believed should be the focal point. When they were losing with all three in the lineup it was Carmelo's fault because he was not adjusting his game to the mercurial talents of Jeremy Lin. Now what's the excuse everyone is constantly talking about running to the 7th seed last week it was running to the 8th seed. Considering they were around the 11th seed three weeks it is an accomplishment. Has anyone been checking out the Denver Nuggets lately? They were the team Du Jour because they pulled off the trade of the century wonder if they would not want Carmelo Anthony back right about now?

The Knicks are 15-5 since they let go of a coach that thought it was Ok to run their offense through a guy that was just called up from the D-league. Also It is not like Jeremy Lin did not dominate the ball. He was not a real point guard and everything in their offense was screen roll Jeremy Lin. The Knicks are playing their best basketball of the season right now and part of the reason is because the offense runs through Carmelo Anthony. Forget about what the Goffs and Bernsteins of the world think though they are right on this one. Mike Woodson believed that the team was better off if the offense ran through Carmelo Anthony. He told the team that when he first got the job. Right now they are the third or fourth best team in the eastern conference and they are doing without two players that most believed should be the focal point. When they were losing with all three in the lineup it was Carmelo's fault because he was not adjusting his game to the mercurial talents of Jeremy Lin. Now what's the excuse everyone is constantly talking about running to the 7th seed last week it was running to the 8th seed. Considering they were around the 11th seed three weeks it is an accomplishment. Has anyone been checking out the Denver Nuggets lately? They were the team Du Jour because they pulled off the trade of the century wonder if they would not want Carmelo Anthony back right about now?

It's pretty normal for a team to go on a decent run after they fire a coach. Normally, that goes away and the team returns back to what it was. This team was terrible before Lin showed up so stop bringing him up. Lin has nothing to do with anything. The Knicks were bad before him, and make no mistake it was still Carmelo's team.

Carmelo has played really well, but this is still an average NBA team going nowhere just like pretty much every Carmelo team. There is no way they are the 3rd best team in the Eastern Conference either. The Bulls, Heat, and Pacers are clearly better. Boston, when they actually are at full strength, is better.

You act like the last month overrides the mountains of evidence that even with great statistics, Carmelo led teams aren't great teams. It's been true his whole career. I'll believe that Carmelo can turn the Knicks into an elite team when he actually does it. A late season run in a peculiar NBA season because of the shortened season isn't evidence of anything to me besides the fact that with Carmelo Anthony leading your team you are in for a whole lot of average results.

I'll ask you long time guy. What do you see the Knicks doing in the playoffs? You think they'll win a series?

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The Nuggets are probably going to finish in the same position as the Knicks, and they have had even worse injury problems this season. And they play in the west, where a near .500 does not guarantee you a playoff spot.

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I'd still rank the Bulls, Heat, Celtics, Pacers & Hawks over the Knicks going into the play-offs.

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The bump from a new coach does not usually last more than 5 or 6 games. Winning a series will be tough because they will be matched up with the Bulls or the Heat though the heat series does intrigue me because i want to see the Carmelo/Lebron matchup. Dont think they are better than either the Bulls or the Heat. My point is that too often players get blame when their teams don't win. It is not like he has played with stellar talent throughout his career. Denver was nothing before he got there. Check their record the year before he was drafted. you want to know what the missing piece was in Detroit not winning more championships Carmelo Anthony. He has been portrayed as a loser because he hasn't won anything. He has lost to superior teams every year in the playoffs. The reason I keep bringing up Jeremy Lin is because people were using his emergence as reason to take a shot at Anthony. How would he play with Anthony would Anthony's return be a hindrance for Jeremy Lin? Once Lin began to struggle the finger was pointed at Anthony as the reason for his struggles. It was not that he was matched up with superior teams and guards that could exploit the holes (turnovers/lack of defense in his game) it was Carmelo Anthony ball stopper/coach killer. Look at how the same crew is that believed this crap is trying to spin it that he didn't play hard for the coach which led to his firing

I'd give you the Pacers. I think they'll give the Heat a series in the second round. Celtics and Hawks not sold on. I want to see the knicks once Stoudamire returns. He is a bit of wild card he has to play better and I don't think he can play the Four. If he can give them anything they are legit. This is not the team D'Antoni coached. He got exposed as a coach. His teams in Phoenix were loaded with talent and he never won anything either. He has not taken much criticism during this process for some of his Decisions

The Knicks have looked a lot better recently with Melo running the team. They've lost to some good teams because they were shorthanded. Melo may have been slacking earlier in the season but he's turned it on. Saying he is Larry Hughes is a real bad basketball thought. Hughes wasn't anything close to Melo on his best day.

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I remember Larry Hughes freezing Derrick Rose out quite a few times during Rose's rookie year. On Hughes' best day, he was a slightly more athletic J.R. Smith.

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"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

Carmelo has been around the league a long time. Pretty much all evidence indicates that while he can turn a bad team average he's not likely to turn an average team into a great team. He couldn't do it in Denver, and he's not doing it with the Knicks. Even you acknowledge that he's likely one and done this year, and yes, he gets blame for the seeding given that he was playing for the whole year. One could argue that if they don't have the winning streak with Lin they are still on the outside of the playoffs.

Here is the major point of this thread. Good luck building your team around simply getting the ball to Carmelo and then letting him do what he does. It hasn't worked over the long term. Knicks fans realize this. The Nuggets learned this. We can't say they are wrong until Carmelo actually proves it wrong. He's got a chance in the playoffs, but as you seem to be acknowledging, he's likely going to lose in the first round. Then, we start the cycle over again next year expecting different results.

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Agreed. He wasn't a great scorer. He was more streaky than anything else. Never improved him game.

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You know what Brick? It just dawned on me:

Carmelo is Tracy McGrady. Think about it.

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Rick great coaches know you don't force a superstar to fit your system. You try to build your system around that superstar or give him freedom (like Phil did with Jordan and Kobe) freelance sometimes. Melo was the best player on team (by far) and he wasn't featured in the offense. He didn't help himself by pouting but stubborn coaching was responsible for the Knicks start. They've overcome a lot of injuries and have played well with an inferior roster (in comparison to the start of the season).

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That's a good comparison.

I think McGrady was misused too. Too many people think just because someone is capable of scoring 30 points in a game you should do your best to get them to score 30 points in every game. Eventually, you have to try something different but you have to get the superstar to buy into it. Some never will.

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I made the Larry Hughes comment, but I was clearly joking.

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Melo has led his team to the WCF and won an NCAA title but it does fit a little. Both were great scorers but Melo was better during crunch time.

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Got it. I glanced at and went to the last page. I thought everyone was agreeing with it.

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I'm pretty sure Phil Jackson forced every player he ever had into his offense.

The system D'Antonio was running probably wasn't right, but I think we'll find out that the Mike Woodson one isn't going to turn the Knicks into an elite team either. They do have talent on that team too.

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My basic point is that he will have once again lost to superior teams. Give me a series in which he is the favorite and loses then i'll begin to look at it differently. During last year's
playoffs with Boston Stoudamire and Billups missed the final three games. His teams in Denver were ok but they were never the favorite to win the West.

What puzzles me though, is why some insane scorers like Jordan, Kobe, Bird, Baylor, Frazier, etc were able to win and others (McGrady, Lebrawn, Melo, Iverson, Carter, Drexler, Bernard King) weren't.

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Let's play a game.

Pick any player drafted since 2000 who is equal to or better than Carmelo Anthony in terms of talent and has a worse resume of team results.

Can you name one?

Then, try and pick the best player since 2000 who isn't Carmelo Anthony who has a worse resume of team results.

By team results, I mean seeds, playoff results, and championships.

The answer is probably Chris Paul, but that resume is probably surpassing Carmelo this year if it hasn't already.

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My basic point is that if you truly believe you can build an elite team around Carmelo Anthony then why is he always playing superior teams?

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When he is essentially the only offensive threat that they currently have it is difficult to hold that against him. The Knicks were nothing special before he got there. Stoudamire has been hurt much of the time that he has been there yet if they don't win its all on Carmelo Anthony. There are guys that are scrambling to play with better players Lebron James did it Kobe Bryant did it Dwyane Wade did it Chris Paul did it and yes Carmelo Did it. We have to see how it plays out with the Knicks at full strength. The question is are they better with Carmelo Anthony as the lead scorer or not the answer is yes. You seem to be doing the Dan Bernstein like does having Carmelo get them closer to a championship the answer again is yes. Does it necessarily mean that they will win because they have him no. He is playing like one of the top five players yet if they don't win its because of him. You take him off the team and they don't make the playoffs.

Why is it unreasonable to not have judged Carmelo Anthony so far? He's been in the league as long as Lebron and Wade and yet both of those players get judged heavily too. It just so happens that both of them have actually played on elite teams. Make all the excuses you want for Carmelo but the facts are that outside of one above average season, his teams just haven't been a real threat.

If I'm going to laugh at Lebron for not winning a title, then why do I have to wait for the magical time that Carmelo Anthony has enough talent around him?

You'd think that if anything, Carmelo could do what Rose has done and lead a team to one of the best records in the league. That's a pretty low bar for a superstar.

No. The Knicks probably weren't even better than the Nuggets, especially with what they gave up. With Carmelo it was literally trade me to the Knicks or else. He's as much to blame for the lack of talent around him as anyone else.

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Unlike Lebron Carmelo was in a conference that contained elite teams. San Antonio Phoenix Los Angeles Dallas were all superior teams during the time that he was in the West. Can you name any among the four named that Denver was supposed to beat. Even Utah had more talent than Denver. Whom Did Lebron beat when Cleveland was an elite team? An aging Detroit. Unlike Wade He did not have the luxury of playing with Shaq when Shaq was an elite player. Once both players realized they could not do it alone they ran to each other. The Bulls with Derrick Rose has more talent than any of the teams that Carmelo had in Denver. There have been years when Lebron James was the favorite, like last year and lost. There were other years like when he lost to Orlando that he was expected to win. Two years ago he came up small against Boston. The Best team Denver had was the team that lost to the Lakers. Lakers were a better team Denver gave them all they wanted and a couple of games were lost Due to turnovers made by players other than Anthony. He also took the Kobe challenge and for much of the series he outplayed Kobe. Jordan could not when until he got better players around him. Kobe Bryant could not win without better players neither can James or Wade why is Anthony different?

Is there anyone who thought much of Gallinari, Chandler, Felton before they were traded to Denver. New York was a .500 team with them people seem to forget that. The Knicks are playing better now without them. In fact there is not one person aside from the non descript Landry Fields that was on the team last year and the Knicks are playing better. Their Record now is better than at any point last year and they are missing Stoudamire.