It's because he hasn't. It's as simple as that. He's easily the best player in the league with the worst team results. It's hard to come up with another player who is even close to as good as him that's been so irrelevant in terms of being on an elite team. You completely ignored that question because outside of Chris Paul(who is ending that discussion this year) it's hard to come up with another player.

You can stop referencing the fact that Carmelo has never been on a really good team as evidence. That's the point. Carmelo hasn't ever been on a really good team and he certainly isn't now. The fact that there were at least 4 other teams in the West consistently better than his team isn't exactly helping your case here that a team centered around Carmelo Anthony is going to ever be elite. He switched conferences, and his team is clearly outclassed by teams like the Pacers.

There is a common theme here. Carmelo Anthony based teams don't become elite. He's been in the league since 2003. It's more than fair to question why he can put up such big numbers but his teams always seem to be average. You can make all the excuses you want about playing with nothing but losers(though Billups, Iverson, and others were no slouches in Denver). Amare may not be the same player, but he's not a loser either. That's three multi-year all stars he's played with. Is that worse than Rose who has gotten Boozer, and Deng and has accomplished significantly more in much less time?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He made Denver better and He has made the Knicks better. My point is that he lost to teams that were better. The Lakers were better than Denver when they beat them. They had more talent. Check the Rosters of the teams that I have named and tell me whether or not Denver had more talent. They did not. Iverson was overrated and if you want to check impact Denver and Philly got better once he left. Those Denver Teams did not have enough talent to contend with the elite teams. I understand what you are saying about him being able elevate the talent around him. But the talent around him was not much. Aside from Billups he has never played with another all star player. I don't count Iverson he was about done when they got him. There were some pieces in Denver Nene much like Stoudamire he is always hurt. The one year they were really good they Lost to a Lakers team that was loaded. The Bulls as presently constructed are better than any Denver Team that he has played on and the Jury is still out on the Knicks because we have to see what Stoudamire does.

Phil gave Jordan and Kobe freedom to freelance. D'Antonio didn't feature his best player in the offense. The same guy they traded away their whole team for. That's foolish. They do have talent on that team but it's nowhere near as good as teams like the Heat and the Bulls.

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He's lost to superior teams. There hasn't been a series with his team was best or the match up was equal and he lost. With the game on the line there aren't many players besides Kobe who you would want the ball in their hands.

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Yes. I get it. Carmelo lost to superior teams. That's normally what happens.

The question is why is Carmelo always on inferior teams?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Because his teams don't have the right players. We all know Amare isn't a winner but the Knicks overpaid for him. IMO give the Knicks a PG (minus Amare) and they immediately become an elite team. Who in the NBA can stop Amare? He toyed with LeBron and he's the best defender in the NBA.

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That's not really a Melo problem. He can't help who they put around him. Granted he hasn't always given maximum effort (see the difference in his play now and when he was pouting) when he isn't happy but there are only a couple players I would rather have in a big game or with the game on the line. The best player in the NBA (LeBron) isn't one.

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My grandmother would refer to the current state of this argument as "picking the fly shit out of the pepper."

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The Bulls haven't done anything wrong, and they're not going to do anything wrong.

Maybe one day Carmelo will finally have enough talent around him to play on an elite team and I'll be proven wrong. Until that day, I guess we can just put it as bad luck that Carmelo is the only great player in the NBA who has never played on an elite team.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course he can. He chose the Knicks.

Don't even mention Lebron here. Lebron took a team to the Finals that had a worse supporting cast than Carmelo had in at least 3 seasons.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Other teams having better players isn't Carmelo's fault. That falls on the GM. Fact is he hasn't lost when his teams had better players or more talent. Even now the Knicks are winning despite having less talent. Billups and Iverson were shells of their former self and you would rather have Bosh than Amare. That says a lot about his will to win. Rose has some of the best supporting and selfless players in the NBA. The closet "team" that comes to them was the Pistons teams that beat the Lakers and lost to the Spurs.

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So you would rather have LeBron with the game or season on the line?

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Lebron. He took a team worse than the Knicks to the Finals.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Against an aging Pistons team. They ran up against a real team and the Spurs destroyed them. Carmelo has been the best player with the game on the line for some time now (stat wise). He's arguably the most clutch player in the NBA. LeBron has lost the last 3 years even though his teams had the most talent. That's fine if you want to go with LeBron. These things are subjective.

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Chris Paul did not need to end this year to end the discussion. That's my point. He made Tyson Chandler relevant as a basketball player. He made David West an all star and more than just an afterthought. He led the Hornets to the playoffs with a crappy roster. His credentials as a difference maker was solidified before this year. He also was in the Western Conference which back then was much more difficult. Lebron James had an easier road in the east got swept by the Spurs. If Denver was in the East maybe they would have gone to the Finals also. The ability to win championships has a lot to do with the people around you. He made Denver a better team and he is making the Knicks a better team. The Whole playoff and championship litmus test and metric is fallacious because it often is relative to the players that you play with. the aforementioned Lebron James is the perfect example. Once the east got better he surrounded himself with better players before he became a perennial first round casualty. Kobe was an eighth seed without Pau Gasol. He was on a team going nowhere does that negate the five championships that he has. The question is has he ever one a championship with a team that was not supposed to win?

Carlos Boozer has made the Bulls better. Amare made the Knicks better. David West has made the Pacers better.

I'm not building my team around any of those players. They can be great components to it. Some of them may even be the best player on the team.

The bottom line is that Carmelo has done nothing to prove he can make a team elite which means that he doesn't get the right to build a whole team around him and just let him do his thing as Jason Goff wants.

Maybe one day, Carmelo will finally be on an elite team, and I'll be wrong. I'll be willing to admit that Carmelo can lead a team to elite status. However, I've watched him play since 2003, and I've never seen Carmelo on an elite team. You haven't either. Everything else is just excuses. To celebrate the fact that he's leading them to a potential 6th seed seems counter intuitive to the idea that he can lead your team to greatness. We should expect more than a 6th seed out of a player like Carmelo. Instead, we celebrate that he turned the Knicks into a playoff team.

If Lebron, or Rose, or Durant, or pretty much any player that is considered elite had such poor results in terms of wins we'd be saying they aren't that good. For some reason though, Carmelo gets a pass because at times he's the most dominant scorer in the league.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As an outsider looking in to this debate, it appears two separate issues are being discussed:

1) Can you build a team around Melo

2) Can you allow Melo to "be Melo" and be your offense

I don't necessarily believe those two issues are mutually exclusive, however in the case of New York they very well may be.

Carlos Boozer has made the Bulls better. Amare made the Knicks better. David West has made the Pacers better.

I'm not building my team around any of those players. They can be great components to it. Some of them may even be the best player on the team.

The bottom line is that Carmelo has done nothing to prove he can make a team elite which means that he doesn't get the right to build a whole team around him and just let him do his thing as Jason Goff wants.

Maybe one day, Carmelo will finally be on an elite team, and I'll be wrong. I'll be willing to admit that Carmelo can lead a team to elite status. However, I've watched him play since 2003, and I've never seen Carmelo on an elite team. You haven't either. Everything else is just excuses. To celebrate the fact that he's leading them to a potential 6th seed seems counter intuitive to the idea that he can lead your team to greatness. We should expect more than a 6th seed out of a player like Carmelo. Instead, we celebrate that he turned the Knicks into a playoff team.

Glad you brought up Durant. Did Durant lead OKC (previously) Seattle anywhere playoffs championships anywhere before Westbrook, Harden, IBAKA, I recall his "impact" being two straight years of high lottery picks. Check his first year record and measure it against Anthony's. He did not begin to win until he got better players around him. That is my point he has not demonstrated that he can carry a team anywhere by himself or even with average players. Westbrook is a star and Harden is a budding all star. It took that for OKC to be an elite team. When Anthony consistently plays with players of this caliber then he can be judged in my opinion more accurately

So your point is that if Carmelo had another elite player and one more nearly elite player then his team would be good? I'm not going to argue that but it kind of doesn't matter in this discussion since in that case he would be playing team basketball and not being the featured guy and hoping for success.

You just helped prove my point. You don't expect Carmelo to be able to lead a team to elite status as the only elite player(as Rose, Lebron, and even Howard have done for at least a few seasons). I win!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

When BR has his mind set on something you may as well argue with the wall. Nothing you post will change his opinion. He's not flexible when it comes to his thoughts. I've learned that over the years.

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You must hate people like that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rose is the one I respect out of the three because he is doing in a vastly improved East. Howard's impact is debatable. How much of an impact can you have when the one year that you do anything of note Hedo Turkoglu is regarded as indispensable to your team. They were clamoring for the return of Turkoglu. Anthony went to war in the playoffs last year with Anthony Carter Toney Douglas Jared Jeffries Landry Fields all playing starting/significant roles what are you going to win with that outfit?

It can be annoying at times but because it's predictable I like it. Generally I know what to expect from a "debate".

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This was actually cool I'll check out now and get ready for the playoffs

It's always good to have more people with coherent sports thoughts posting.

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GO BEARS!!!

So Carmelo plays about as well as he possibly can and his team loses by double digits in 4 out of 5 games.

Get the ball to Carmelo and let him score is exactly how I would build a team. Idiot New York fans that saw the Knicks play as a team with Carmelo out are so stupid. There is no way that the Knicks can lose 4-1 with 4 double digit losses in the first round of the NBA playoffs without getting the ball all the time to Carmelo Mother effing Anthony!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Like I said Brick, he's Tracy McGrady.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

The only thing I disagree with is I don't think Melo played nearly as well as he possibly can except for Game 4.

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That's fair.

I was just going off the fact that he's only had better averages in one other playoffs, and that was another first round loss.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No NBA player in history has won playing the style that Melo does.

And Melo will be no exception

Even Jordan had to learn to include his teammates.


It really is THAT simple.


And Cairo's McGrady comparison is perfect