So a question of work ethics if I may as your collective opinion...

What would you think of a company that requires you to take training on a new product line on your own time, with no compensation or comp time?

Is that something that you would expect of a tech company (that you need to do whatever you need to do on your own time to stay up to date on new products) or would you expect that your company should pay to train you if they're changing your tech that you're working on?

Thanks. Snark will also be appreciated.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I dunno, ask this guy.

Your company should pay for that.

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I love how the principal or admin or spanky or whatever he is is just rolling his eyes when Eric pulls out the gun. And when The Amazing Blob runs out to attack Eric. Good subtle humor.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

sounds like a shitty company to me.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Seriously though, how in-depth would the study and training be? Would you be going somewhere on a weekend or afterwork for a long time over several days or such or is it just some demo's and papers you take home to study for a week or two?

If you need to go somewhere else on your weekend/afterwork/alone time and use your gas time etc than yes, the company should comp you.

While this doesn't surprise in today's work environment, it is not right. If it is something the company needs you to do to further yourself, you should be compensated and they pay for it.

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2018
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I've had to do this before but my company has a reimbursement program, so technically they did pay for it.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

It's like a grocery store making you bag your own groceries and not paying you for it.

Maybe not.

KID!!!!

Where were you in the Bulls Playoffs thread last night?

I was worried!

I would expect to be compensated for my time. But perhaps, in these wonderful economic times we find ourselves in, they figure you should just be happy to have a job where the check clears.

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Company told me to get my CC-ENT and CCNA (and a ridiculously unrealistic timeframe... by JUNE) and I'm expected to handle my current workload, in which I'm fitting 60 hours worth of work into 45 hour weeks. I'm also in school now 20 hours a week for another thing entirely... and my brain is freaking out as it is.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Oh.

A.)Fuck them.
B.)You need to be paid.

That's precisely what I was told. "You should be happy to have a job". All that kind of talk ever does is disengage employees and make them work JUST hard enough to not get fired. they "turtle" or I guess you could call it "compartmentalize" and only do the basic job functions.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Not being snarky but it depends on if you see it as a job or a career and if you are hourly or salary. To learn more about your craft on your own time is the way to go if you are pursuing a career and want to better yourself. If it is just a job and you are a clock puncher I can see it as unfair. We have both at my place, neither is wrong but they are definately different in the way they are respected and compensated.

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Sorry man. I just can't bring myself to watch DaBoo. It hurts. And New York is down 0-2 and stupid fucking Amare might be done because of his idiocy.

Tough times, my man.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

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Hourly. Snark is fine by me.

I don't see this as a career at all. In fact, I'm doing everything I can to get the hell out. 10 years with this employer, and my competitive ranking has had me at the top of the tech pack for 9 of 10 years. Was hired there in 2002, and in 2004 there was a "pay freeze" so no one at my company has gotten more than one single 2% increase since 2004. "Great job, no increase, be happy to have a job." This company took "BGYHAJ" to a new level.

I'm pretty good at my craft. not the best ever, but damn good. Problem is that they change business strategy consistantly. IN may, i had to parachute into Dallas to train on a new Avaya Product line... only getting my 40 hours for a week in training where I worked my normal tickets from 6:30 to 8, training from 8 to 4 and my tickets from 4 to 6 for 5 days while cramming this new shit down my throat, and by September, they cancel that product line. I feel like I'd be spending my time and my money doing something and in a month they'll change strategy again, making it a major league waste of time and money.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No way you should pay for that.

My wife and everyone on her work team was told they had to buy an Ipad for an upcoming meeting. No reimbursement. And she said it wasn't even necessary. And it's nice we now have an ipad but totally unnecessary expenditure.

Way too many companies are hanging the shitty job market over employees heads.

I'm told I'll be reimbursed for my classes and test fees, but not for my hours. Last time I sought reimbursement for my travel and training it tooks something like 3 months to get paid back. That was a weeks hotel, airfare, food all that shit, came to like 3k they owed me. I had been told I needed to be in Dallas on Monday the previous thursday, so everything was expensive as fuck.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I know you shit on your job a bunch here Darkside, and it seems like it is defintiely deserved, but have you ever thought of trying to move to another company? You've got to draw the line somewhere when taking bullshit from an employer. I know the job market is tough right now, but there are opportunities out there for good people like yourself. Why not try to find something that might make your life a little more sane?

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I think he's trying to stay the course while going to school for a different field.

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So basically they want you to take an unpaid vacation and for that they will pay for you to take training during that time.

That's wrong.

Boyd touched on it. I'm in school for a new trade (which is going swimmingly, I might add). I'm riding this out as best I can. Trouble with my line of work is that almost all of this programming is now being shipped overseas. In fact, last month I was training a tech in India to do my job. He's making like $2.05/hr. How can I compete with that?

My new field can't be outsourced. That's what I should have done in the first place I think.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Is this uncommon? This happens in a lot of fields, doesn't it? They should reimburse you fees (which it sounds like they are) but I wouldn't expect to be paid above and beyond for training which helps me advance in my field in the end.

I wouldn't turn it down if it was offered, of course.

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Hmm, would you get automatic pay bumps for additional qualifications?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Sometimes, not usually. But the requirements of the job continue to evolve and I'd need to keep up with them in order to be highly qualified to remain in my job or similar positions.

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Ok, that's good. That's why I'm asking this kind of stuff... Because in my kind of field, having employees train on product line on their own time is kind of weird. I have a few teachers in my family... they seem to always be in school but when they get a cert or a sheepskin they get bumps in pay.
We're not talking about a seminar here, we're talking about every weekend for several months to get this done. With no pay change and all that time is uncompensated. Oh, and they only reimburse you if you pass. Maybe others would be better at estimating, but I hear that a majority fail their first CCNA test.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

We aren't reimbursed 100% for college courses (pre-approved only), but we don't get any reimbursement at all if we get lower than a "B". Then we get pay "bumps" after a set amount of courses (essentially every 15 credit hours, but that varies by district).

We get no pay for workshops, seminars, conferences, etc. But tons of those are essentially required by the state for re-certification.

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Ok. Interesting difference in the fields and expectations...
What if you were told to take a 150 hour class after work and on weekends with no compensation? Not to keep your job, just that "it would be helpful".

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014