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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:12 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
And I'm not sure why you would make the efficiency argument with MJ. He was the most efficient volume scorer of all time.



Magic shot about 30 percentage points higher. Shooting percentage does mean something. What else do you mean by "efficiency"?

Magic took 13 shots a game, MJ took 23. Magic was rarely the primary scorer on his team, Jordan never played a game where he wasn't. That's why I specifically said volume scorer. It's much more impressive to shoot 50% on 23 shots than 52% on 13 shots. That's one of the reasons Tyson Chandler isn't considered one of the most efficient scorers in the league.



That's completely ignoring the easy baskets Magic created off his passes which is exactly why he didn't need to shoot as much.

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:15 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
This is the Bulls fan argument I hate. When it's in support of Jordan, it's that Jordan never played with anyone. Then in the next argument Pippen and Rodman will be among the 25 best of all-time. I'm not saying you're doing that, but we both know that obviously MAgic and Jordan were different types of players. When Magic needed to carry the scoring load he did and he did it at a better percentage than Jordan. That's indisputable.

I understand the Bulls fan argument but I carefully try not to make the "Jordan never played with anyone" argument. That's just absurd.

I'm not saying Magic wasn't capable of scoring, but I'm saying that Jordan could give you 35 points in his sleep. For Magic to give you 35, either somebody would have to be hurt or he's just insanely on fire.

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Phil McCracken
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Game on the line, Magic in his prime; Jordan in his prime. I'm putting the ball in Jordan's hands 10 out of 10 times. Magic may have shot a higher percentage, but that's only because he took fewer shots. Magic never had to be the top scorer with Kareem and Worthy around.



So what? Magic would find the open man. This is the Bulls fan argument I hate. When it's in support of Jordan, it's that Jordan never played with anyone. Then in the next argument Pippen and Rodman will be among the 25 best of all-time. I'm not saying you're doing that, but we both know that obviously MAgic and Jordan were different types of players. When Magic needed to carry the scoring load he did and he did it at a better percentage than Jordan. That's indisputable.

And Larry Bird is better than both of them
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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:19 am 
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That doesn't even dignify a response...

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spmack
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:19 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
spmack wrote:
Michael Jeffrey Jordan wrote:
#FF @dan_bernstein

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You got a thought on this topic Kamps? Sometimes we have to snatch a sports opinion out of you.

I'm honestly sitting this one out. I was too young to remember if Pippen was actually better than Lebron defensively.

I will say that I don't see Lebron frustrate his opponents like Pippen did. And Lebron seems to go more for the block. Pippen was more in your face.

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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
I understand the Bulls fan argument but I carefully try not to make the "Jordan never played with anyone" argument. That's just absurd.

I'm not saying Magic wasn't capable of scoring, but I'm saying that Jordan could give you 35 points in his sleep. For Magic to give you 35, either somebody would have to be hurt or he's just insanely on fire.


And I know you're not the world's biggest Jordan fan. I just think it's become accepted as an absolute fact that Jordan is the best ever and anyone who questions that idea- especially in Chicago- is viewed as nearly insane. I can make a damn good case on why I think Magic was a greater player. I know it isn't likely that anyone here is going to agree. Ultimately, I don't really care that much. I don't have any imperative to declare one guy "the best ever".

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


Magic shot about 30 percentage points higher. Shooting percentage does mean something. What else do you mean by "efficiency"?

Magic took 13 shots a game, MJ took 23. Magic was rarely the primary scorer on his team, Jordan never played a game where he wasn't. That's why I specifically said volume scorer. It's much more impressive to shoot 50% on 23 shots than 52% on 13 shots. That's one of the reasons Tyson Chandler isn't considered one of the most efficient scorers in the league.



That's completely ignoring the easy baskets Magic created off his passes which is exactly why he didn't need to shoot as much.

No it's not ignoring that. You just want to have a different discussion now. If we are comparing them as overall players there's a ton we need to touch on and hopefully each of us has a few hours a few thousand words to spare. Im just taking issue with your efficient scorer argument. Magic wasn't a more efficient scorer than Jordan. Their TS% is almost identical and Jordan faced tougher defenses and was the primary scorer on his team.

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:21 am 
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That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?

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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:24 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?

1. Dolph Schayes

2. Len Bias
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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:26 am 
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:lol: I was gonna say Dolph for 1 too. JORR's a sucker for the two handed set shot. I know Rodman is the answer to #2 though.

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spmack
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:27 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?



Knowing JORR, Number 1 would be Pistol Pete, and Number 2 would be Orlando Woolridge.

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:28 am 
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spmack wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?



Knowing JORR, Number 1 would be Pistol Pete, and Number 2 would be Orlando Woolridge.

:lol:

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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:31 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?



I would say Chamberlain or Shaq for number one. Maybe Russell. A center is just the most important guy. I know it isn't as fun to watch a big guy slam the ball down as it is to watch Mike or Dr. J fly.

Number 2 is Rodman, no doubt. I loved watching Dennis.

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:33 am 
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This is why I like these conversations because they're all subjective. You could ask 10 different guys and possibly receive 10 different answers.

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:34 am 
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Why is center the more important guy? Isn't todays NBA an example of that being wrong?

And even if the center is more important how does that translate to the best ever player?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:35 am 
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Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...

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Phil McCracken
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
That's the fun of it JORR.

Let me ask you two questions though, just out of curiosity and because I don't think you've ever difinitively stated it:

1. Who do you think is the greatest NBA player of all time?

2. Who is your personal favorite player of all time?



I would say Chamberlain or Shaq for number one. Maybe Russell. A center is just the most important guy. I know it isn't as fun to watch a big guy slam the ball down as it is to watch Mike or Dr. J fly.

Number 2 is Rodman, no doubt. I loved watching Dennis.

You really love dudes who can't shoot free throws

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:37 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...

My brother in law (same guy who said the top teams from the 90s couldn't compete today) said that Hakeem was overrated and centers today are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...

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Last edited by The Original Kid Cairo on Thu May 31, 2012 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:37 am 
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Hakeem is mad underrated.

Top 5 IMO
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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:38 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
said that Hakeem was overrated and centers are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...


Wow. Wasn't Hakeem like the most athletic center ever?

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Last edited by RFDC on Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spmack
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:38 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hakeem is mad underrated.

Top 5 IMO

Just ask David Robinson.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...

My brother in law (same guy who said the top teams from the 90s couldn't compete today) said that Hakeem was overrated and centers are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...

Yeah that is just a red flag that somebody doesn't watch or doesn't remember.

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
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RFDC wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
said that Hakeem was overrated and centers are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...


Wow. Wasn't Hakeem like the most athletic center every?

Absolutely. Some basketball opinions just need to be immediately dismissed. I've grown to hate talking basketball with him.

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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Why is center the more important guy? Isn't todays NBA an example of that being wrong?

And even if the center is more important how does that translate to the best ever player?



No, because there aren't any great centers right now.

Calling a shooting guard the "best ever" is no different than saying the best football player ever was an offensive lineman. :lol: Okay, I'm baiting a little, but the positions do matter. A great big man is better than a great small man.

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Phil McCracken
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am 
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Hakeem on the Raptors could still show up the majority of Centers playing in the NBA today. He was really good.

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badrogue17
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...

My brother in law (same guy who said the top teams from the 90s couldn't compete today) said that Hakeem was overrated and centers today are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...

Meatball alert!! Wouldn't the second 3 peat Bulls team blow the doors off this Miami team? 4 to 1 or maybe a sweep?

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hakeem is mad underrated.

Top 5 IMO

Agreed. I think he's the best center of all time. Probably the best big man period. Although Duncan is getting one for the thumb soon...

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The Original Kid Cairo
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...

My brother in law (same guy who said the top teams from the 90s couldn't compete today) said that Hakeem was overrated and centers today are far more athletic than Hakeem was. Yeah...

Meatball alert!! Wouldn't the second 3 peat Bulls team blow the doors off this Miami team? 4 to 1 or maybe a sweep?

Hell, the first 3-peat team would probably sweep em too.

This Miami team would be a 7th seed in the East in 1993.

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Last edited by The Original Kid Cairo on Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rogers park bryan
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 am 
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spmack wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hakeem is mad underrated.

Top 5 IMO

Just ask David Robinson.

or Shaq
or Ewing

Dude had 2 guard type skills to go along with the best post game....ever?
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Rod
 Post subject: Re: Bernstein vs. OKC
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Shaq over Hakeem? Can't get on board that train...



Okay. I'm not going to argue that. Hakeem was great too. I don't think he was as good as Shaq at his best. To me, Shaq is the most underrated of the big men. His championships, the ones where he was MVP, have somehow been assigned to Kobe. Everyone hates the big man these days.

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