Nas,
As long as Pax has the $'s to keep Kirk, Luol & Gordon long term, I have no problem with Wallace's contract.
Did they overpay?
Of course they did.
They overpaid for an instant upgrade in defensive physicality and for the passing ability out of the post, both skills that Tyson might never develop.

As a result, they progressed as a team - so it's money well spent.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Chandler's main problems were fouls and back trouble. He appears to have cured one. I always thought he could average double digit rebounds. I never would have thought he could average double digit points.

Nas, you are truly the king of stat-guys. Did you watch the game, or just look at the box score?

I don't need to see any stats to know how good a player Chandler is, because I watched him play many, many games. He played in the west where he was able to go ahead an run the break a bit more, and congratulations to him, but he's still the same being-tall-is-my-only-skill guy he was when the Bulls traded an excellent player for him.

Edit:

Oh, and I knew he was lazy when I saw him regress after signing a huge contract. You want to go ahead and make excuses for that laziness, fine. I hold people to a higher standard.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
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Hey Statman,
It's 1.5 assists more & .9 steals & .25 blocks & .4 fewer turnovers.
All these little stats add up to possesions & points.

The reason Tyson still averaged fewer than 1 assist per game, is his terrible hands. You have to catch the ball first before you can pass it back out.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

I'm very sick of this discussion. Nas, most of your arguments have their merits, but this one confuses me. Are you saying that Tyson DOESN'T have bad hands? Or are you saying that the # of turnovers doesn't dictate that he has bad hands? Because Tyson probably has the worst hands I've ever seen.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

I hated when the Bulls would pass Chandler (or attempt to) the ball. This guy had the worst hands I'd seen in some time. Everything was juggled, very rarely caught cleanly.

word on the court is big ben is actually one of the team's BEST freethrow shooters in practice, and he also hits 3's during warmups all day long. he's not a terribly bad shooter, he just doesnt have the shooters touch. everything either goes straight through or airballs, theres no in between and during games when that last tweak to your shot matters, he just cant finesse it like a shooter can.

I heard that same thing too and I wondered just why he was never able to implement scoring into his game somehow.

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sadly enough for the rest of the team, he actually is one of our best free throw shooters- in the playoffs

in any case the whole 'ben cant shoot from 15' is pretty pointless. has there been one time yet this year at all that his free throws mattered? actually, i can recall twice that his shots counted big in games- and he made them.

Ike, what's gotten into you? This is your third post today that's made some sense. What gives?

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We all have private ails. The troublemakers are they who need public cures for their private ails.- Eric Hoffer

Why?

Besides, Tyson crapped his pants last year in the playoffs, far worse than any member of the Bulls this year.

Last year against Miami:

Tyson scored 11 points in 6 games
Tyson had more fouls than rebounds (29 to 27)

Let’s get on with our lives already. What’s done is done.

wait bucket...now is where nas comes in and argues that chandler wasn't in shape during the playoffs last year because he couldn't work out in the offseason 6 months earlier because he was waiting for his contract.

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"Tubby? Oh yes, Tubby."

Nas, I’m not defending Wallace. His play was disappointing and he is one of the significant reasons why they didn’t advance.

I’m just tired of the Tyson nonsense. In ’05, he went up against a weak Washington front court, and thrived. In ’06, he went up against a tough Miami front court, and shriveled.

Tyson was a dog, and I’m glad he’s gone. I’m not pleased with what Pax got in return, but that’s a different argument. I can’t guarantee that I’ll be posting here when Tyson retires, but I’d be willing to wager that he (and Curry for that matter) not only never wins a title, but that he doesn’t even sniff one.

I would like to add that there were times in this series when Ben Wallace was the ONLY guy on the court doing anything to try and help this team win. The enetire team had a bad series, but in comparison to everyone else on this team he was probably in the top 3 of the performers on the Bulls. Again, we didn't sign him to get 20 ppg.

Have at it, Nas. Table yourself right into a circle jerk. I expect Tyson to have higher averages than Wallace next year. I also expect Wallace to have the better postseason, assuming of course that Chandler is participating in it.

And yes, Tyson is a dog. He played hard from November to May, but was an annual headache for Pax/Skiles every offseason. Again, glad he’s gone. I will take Wallace, Tyrus, and the 9 pick over Tyson & Curry, hands down. I’m disappointed that Krause’s plan didn’t work out, but I got over it a long time ago.

Watch games 1 & 2 especially. When the Bulls were playing with their tails in between their legs, it was Wallace swatting the ball, it was Wallace making some nice passes, it was Wallace getting his hands in the face of shooter, hell it was Wallace SCORING THE POINTS!

Clearly Wallace did not play as well as we needed him to, especially game 5 where he was really nowehere to be found. Don't try and twist this to me saying Big Ben is the best thing to come to Chicago because clearly I'm not saying that. No question we needed more out of him, but needless to say we needed more out of everyone on the team. But can you imagine Butterfingers Chandler in the playoffs for another run? Ugh.

I quoted this just because I like seeing it.

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ditto

Chandler sucks. You're going to have ample room on that bandwagon for eternity.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

That's an overstatement of your success rate.

Nas, can you take down the Deng signatue now and put the Prior one back up

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"Stay out of courtrooms-but if you must go in be Well Armed and Don't compromise. You are innocent, remember that. They are guilty" -- Dr. Gonzo

If you go by nothing but numbers, as you do, Chandler is okay. But numbers don't show a guy's propensity to make stupid fouls at bad times and continually mishandle the ball. This guy will never be better than average at best. If he's ever Anderson Varejao he'll be lucky.

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The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

Tyson is definitely above average, but I don’t think he’ll ever become an elite big man in the NBA, and I still believe the Bulls are more likely to win a title with Wallace than Chandler.

Don’t fret, Nas. It’s not out of the question that Pax will bring Chandler back… in the form of Joakim Noah.

They tell you a little; just not the whole story. Your approach works better in baseball, and worse yet in football.


Dude. I watched nearly every game the man played for 4 of his first 5 years. He's not a good basketball player; he's just a tall guy. That's my problem with him. Somehow, NO managed to feed this piece of crap to the tune of 14 points a game at the end of the season; congrats to them on running his numbers in losing effort after key losing effort. That doesn't transform that tall China-doll into a baller by any means. In my mind, it shows more that NO is a shitty team (who, contrary to your prediction did not make the playoffs, btw) who desperately resorts to using Chandler as a scoring option. We'll see how that strategy works out in the next couple years; I'll tell you this, I'd be willing to bet on continued mediocrity from NO.

Maybe Wallace has managed to sink even lower than Chandler; that sucks, but it was still a gamble worth taking, because you damn well knew Chandler sucked. At least there's an intimidation factor with Wallace, and you would have thought he'd be a hard worker (though he seems determined to prove that to be a myth). Where Paxson fucked up was actually managing to get something decent for Chandler, but then giving it away for next to nothing.

_________________
You can't see me because of internet.

The landowner effectively owns part shares in millions of part-time slaves called, "taxpayers." -Roy L
A Personal Relationship with Jesus?

miss a little..shit man, this has OG thread potential for it to come back right back to the surface again.

Nas, I thought the Bears were going to win the superbowl

I thought Mark Prior was going to lead the Cubs to the World Series this year?

I thought Luol Deng was going to lead the Bulls to an NBA title.

Other gems...
Last year's surprise teams in the NFL..from Nas, I'm going with the Cardinals or Browns

Chiefs predicted win over the Colts

Superbowl MVP: Rex Grossman

I'm a fan of Nas, but I'm a little confused of where this success rate is you speak of beside Tyson Chandler playing well this year. This is not to say I'm any better, but when you tell about your success rate I thought I'd throw in a little humility. Keeps good men grounded.

oh trust me, i've never claimed to be an expert, but i'm still trying to figure out what this "success rate" is. gd and i apparently got a little chuckle out of it. I'm not going to bother to post everything i've gone out on a limb on and i've been right on. it's all been documented and there's no need for a pissing match...before you know it, we'll start posting...well...i'll shut up...

Nas' story can be heard coming from the mouths of every bad gambler from Las Vegas to Hong Kong...remember the wins and multiply them by 2, forget the loses.

I'll give him credit for winning the pick em event during football season. That was impressive and showed an understanding of what he was saying. The rest can best be described as throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.

You mean like Mark Prior and something to do with leading a team to the World Series?

Bump,
Rick if you're going to argue this at least do it in the proper thread.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Brian Griese is better than Rex Grossman.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!