I know Dunn gets on base. I know he's a lefty. I know he can go yard. Sometimes you just need a fucking hit. I dont get having a 220 hitter at the three. the three spot always comes up before the 4. With two outs in the bottom of the ninth and the tying run on third, I dont want Paulie swinging a bat in the on-deck circle while Dunn strikes out for the third time.

Paul wont hit 350 for the year. But he will hit 310 to 320. Konerko has developed into a tough out, he uses all fields, doesnt strike out that much and has a better chance of getting hit which requires contact.

Some of the line ups you guys have suggested all seem to have Dunn at 3. I just dont get it.

I'd keep Paulie where he is. I'd try Rios for a couple of games in the 3spot.

_________________

Do you guys really think .900 OPS from your number three guy is a bad thing?????

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This is the ultimate old school baseball complaint

Batting order complaint fueled by Batting Average angst

2 for 28 with 18 K's...That's the slump that Adam Dunn is currently in following his 4 strikeout night in the White Sox 4-1 loss to the Twins. He now has 119 K's on the season. A caller into Chris Rongey's "Xfinity Feedback Zone" postgame show after the loss wondered why RV continues to bat Dunn in the #3 spot, and Ranger insisted in Dunn's high on-base percentage. In my opinion, the time has come to give Dunn a breather from the lineup and perhaps move him down in the order.

Bill Melton, the Comcast SportsNet White Sox analyst who joins The SCORE's "Mac & Spiegs" Tuesdays, also mentioned that 2B Gordon Beckham might not be long for the #9 spot. I've got stats regarding Beckham that CSN's Chuck Garfien tweeted before last night's game in Minnesota. I'm not about to suggest Beckham as the #3, but Kevin Youkilis might not be a #2 either long term. Melton said that Beckham might actually return to the #2 and he suggested that Youkilis perhaps might be a #3 instead. There's also the issue of base cloggers from #2 on down if Youkilis stays in the #2 spot.

As for Beckham, talk about a difference between night & day. He's batting .265 with 7 HR & 25 RBI's in the #2, while he started the night batting just .197 with 2 HR's & 7 RBI's as the #9. Last night...0 for 3.

SHARK, Youkilis batted second on a champion. I think he can bat second here. And I dont understand the term "base clogger". One way to make sure the bases arent clogged is to bat guys who dont get on high in the order.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Youkilis batted 3rd today. I'll take that but not Dunn.

The problem with that was the bases were clogged all game. I think Youkilis, Dunn, and Konerko should be moved down to 7, 8, and 9 to avoid having the bases clogged as much as possible.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You are hilarious grandpa!

The three hitter should always be your best hitter. Is Dunn the Sox best hitter? Can you be the best hitter on the team when you strike out 220 times?

Not a chance!

Did God put that on a tablet and hand it to Moses? Your three hitter shall be your best hitter.

You call me grandpa but you're the one with the archaic ideas. Your best hitter should bat first so he can ... yeah, that's right, get the most plate appearances.

Dunn is the second best hitter on the Sox.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You put your best run producer 3rd. Dunn (who is BACK) is batting where he should be.

_________________

I hear you on this one JORR. When people were wringing their hands about Soriano in the leadoff spot I never really got it. I would gladly take a guy who hits homers somewhat consistently in that position than hope that some fast little guy can get a bunt single, steal second, advance to third on a ball hit to the right and come home on a sac fly. Lots more can go wrong there.

_________________

Name another hitter in history that batted 3rd batting .220 (today its .214). And on pace for 200 plus strikeouts. MAybe Thome his last year here? Does anyone actually think the Sox would be worse with Paulie third? They'd be four or five games better in my opinion. Think of the pitches Paulie would see. And he'd actually make contact. Konerko would have 20 Hrs batting 3rd at this point. His slugging and on base pct are better than Dunns and he has half the walks. He has struck out 80 fewer times and has 25 more hits. How is this even a discussion? Dunn is a four hitter. I'd bat him 5th versus lefties.

Why would Konerko have more home runs batting third? This team would probably score more runs if Konerko led off with Dunn in the two hole. There's no way swapping those two guys in the order effects a five game swing. That's just absurd. You have to get over the batting average thing, Grandpa. That's something people thought was important in the last century.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm not opposed to the idea of switching them, but don't really get your argument here. You have a problem with a slow-ass guy striking out as opposed to hitting into inning ending double plays? I don't necessarily want a guy to make contact... a strike out is much better than an infield out with men on base. One point you are overlooking is the walk rate. Dunn leads the league with 58 walks. Now a walk isn't sexy by any means, but it also results in zero baserunners out, and it gets him on base for Konerko to tag on an extra RBI for each HR. I don't know why you think Paulie would have that many HRs out of the 3rd hole. Is this because Dunn would be there to protect him in the batting order? That seems opposed to your entire argument -- wouldn't teams pitch aggressively to Konerko because Dunn poses no threat with the bat?

I would agree that moving Konerko to three makes sense because overall he is a better hitter than Dunn, but it's not like the 3 hole has had 100 more PAs than the 4. If you wanted to be really out there, why not move Konerko up to the #2 and have Dunn at #3?

(* - lefty)
1. DeAza*
2. Konerko
3. Dunn*
4. Rios
5. Viciedo
6. Pierzynski*
7. Beckham
8. Youkilis
9. Ramirez

_________________
"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

THis is nothing new here. Konerko would see better pitches because a HR threat is behind him. Dont want to walk a guy and then give up a two run homer. ANother reason to bat third is moving runners. Can you ever hit and run with Dunn? KOnerko uses the whole field. Dunn uses half of the field. Konerko doesnt really have a spot where he cant do something with a pitch. Sometimes you need a guy to just hit a groundball to short to get a run in. Sometimes you need a guy to hit a sac fly. SOmetimes a Hit and run would be in play. You guys love Billy Bean way too much. Quit watching Moneyball.

What batting avg would be too low for you guys? .159 last year. .214 now. He's on pace for 130 strike outs by the all star game. He's never had 200. He's a 16" Softball player. If he drops under .200 do you still have him hit 3rd?

one and two hitters create havoc. I agree stolen bases are a bit over rated but the threat and the ability to hit and run and score from "a hit" are important. Getting hits!!!! Whatta concept!!

I don't care if he never gets a hit as long as he's getting on base 36% of the time. I'll ask you the same question I asked spanky. If there were a theoretical player that had 6000 career plate appearances with a .000 BA who walked 3500 times would you think he was horseshit or a great player?

You keep bringing up these specious concepts like "havoc" and "base-clogging" that have been proven false by cold hard numbers. The entire idea of batting order "protection" is questionable at best and insignificant at most.

Why do you hate Ferris Fain?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Also, the running game sucks. It doesn't seem to be quite as bad as it was under Guillen, but the Sox still waste far too many outs on the bases and sacrifice way too often.

This is one of the more powerful offenses in the game right now. It doesn't require anything but to allow the powerful hitters to powerfully hit the baseball. No gimmicks necessary. I guarantee that if the Sox had never attempted a steal, a sacrifice, or even taken a lead-off, they'd have more total runs than they currently do.

Now, I understand that the "when" matters in baseball more than anything else. You don't get anything for winning 12-0 as opposed to 1-0. And if we get to a point where teams are playing in a 600 run environment, the running game make begin to make more sense. Especially for the weaker hitting teams. We're not quite there yet, and the 2012 White Sox are an offensive powerhouse. You may not notice because getting shut out by the Brewers sticks out. Run scoring is down. The Rangers are likely to be the only team to break 800 runs. The Dodgers are currently on a 34 inning scoreless streak.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So your guy with 6000 at bats and 3500 walks is your 3 hitter? Over a Frank Thomas? Your logic has .000 avg guy hitting 3rd before Frank Thomas. right? Thats insane.

If on base pct is your argument or slugging pct, then Konerko is better. So you agree with me. I thought so

I've never used that phrase. You are an expert I see. These players you see playing are humans. You know they are not robots. When a faster aggressive runner is on, it changes a lot of things. A pitchers stretch may be quicker creating a slower more hittable pitch for a batter. A faster runner can get to third from first setting up a ground out rbi or sac fly. Lots of different situations are created by fast runners. Moneyball has fucked you up. Its a good concept but its not a computer game.

It's got nothing to do with Moneyball. Earl Weaver knew sixty years ago that running was idiotic. You're indulging in fantasy when every number in the world suggests the exact opposite. And isn't "base-clogging" just the opposite of "havoc"? It's a proven fact that you don't score more runs with "havoc". You just make foolish outs on the bases and celebrate when you don't and this dunderheaded philosophy seems to be working out.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Last time I looked, Frank wasn't on this team. I'd have no problem with swapping Dunn and Konerko. It just isn't something to worry about. It's insignificant.

Why do you hate Eddie Yost?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don