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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:49 am 
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Lets see...

Money? Reinsdorf has a lot of this. I'm sure if the right player comes along, a GM goes to battle with Jerry and does everything possible to get the cash needed.

Thibodeau? I can see that players might not want to play for the guy, but come on. If I am a star, I just tune him out. If he gets too annoying, I go get him fired.

Because its Rose's Town? Bullshit.

Because of Jordan's shadow? Bullshit.

So help me out. Why New York, Miami, LA? Women? Celebrity status? Because I think if you dont find out soon, I can only assume Rose is going to want to be out of here in 2-3 years. I know I would if I was him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:53 am 
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The Bulls are basically maxed out in terms of the salary cap and they will not go into the luxury tax.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:00 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
The Bulls are basically maxed out in terms of the salary cap and they will not go into the luxury tax.


But didnt they have this problem before butting up to the tax? Again, I would assume Jerry would pay the tax if the right player came along, but I could be completely wrong. I prefer not to read into the mind of Jerry Reinsdorf.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 am 
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In the last great Free Ajent class, the de facto cream of the class opted to play together in Miami. The Bulls then got the next best player available to sign with them.

Prior to that was the McGrady class. And that was still Krause and Tim Floyd.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:41 am 
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Yeah, there's no reason Chicago can't be an elite destination but for Jerry Reinsdorf. He wants to run a Chicago team on a Salt Lake City budget, he gets Salt Lake City people.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:43 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Yeah, there's no reason Chicago can't be an elite destination but for Jerry Reinsdorf. He wants to run a Chicago team on a Salt Lake City budget, he gets Salt Lake City people.

Huh?

There's a salary cap. Every team has pretty much the same payroll. I'm not a Jerry guy either, but this post makes zero sense.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:52 am 
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It's a soft cap. They could spend more, but that would detract from the Bulls acting as the fundraising arm of the White Sox, who are conversely allowed to pick up giant contracts as waiver-claim-blocks while 20,000 people come to games.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:56 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
It's a soft cap. They could spend more, but that would detract from the Bulls acting as the fundraising arm of the White Sox, who are conversely allowed to pick up giant contracts as waiver-claim-blocks while 20,000 people come to games.
If Forbes is to be believed, the White Sox have been profitable every year since 2003, and that's the last year they show.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:57 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
It's a soft cap. They could spend more, but that would detract from the Bulls acting as the fundraising arm of the White Sox, who are conversely allowed to pick up giant contracts as waiver-claim-blocks while 20,000 people come to games.

They can only exceed the cap by re-signing their own players. They've done that the past 5 years by re-signing Deng, Noah, and Rose. Unless you want them to match the Asik offer, that would be the only major money they could spend this off-season.

They can't just go out and sign anybody to a max deal.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:08 am 
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I think a majority of the stars don't want to play in a try-hard defense 1st kind of system.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:10 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
In the last great Free Ajent class, the de facto cream of the class opted to play together in Miami. The Bulls then got the next best player available to sign with them.

Prior to that was the McGrady class. And that was still Krause and Tim Floyd.





I would put Amare ahead of Boozer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:30 am 
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This may seem kinda dated, but to this day, I remember a conversation longtime NBA/TNT Sports' PBP Kevin Harlan gave the Bulls' flagship station ESPN Radio 1000 over a decade ago. I'm not sure who was on at the time, but Kevin told the guys that the team's treatment of Michael, Scottie & the 6-time NBA Champions at the time the two Jerrys decided to break that team up after the 6th title was a big reason why Chicago became a less than favorable destination for NBA free agents. Kevin thought at the time that word seemed to get around and the Bulls haven't exactly been a place where marquee free agents really want to come. This was well before the Bulls started to draft much better, and that includes Derrick Martell Rose.

Another possible reason...Taxes. I remember that was a big reason why Tracy McGrady went to Orlando many years ago. Florida, you see, didn't have a state sales tax.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:35 am 
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It may seem kind of dated?

It is entirely useless, seeing as the man responsible for "breaking up the dynasty" is working for the Diamondbacks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:36 am 
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SHARK wrote:
This may seem kinda dated, but to this day, I remember a conversation longtime NBA/TNT Sports' PBP Kevin Harlan gave the Bulls' flagship station ESPN Radio 1000 over a decade ago. I'm not sure who was on at the time, but Kevin told the guys that the team's treatment of Michael, Scottie & the 6-time NBA Champions at the time the two Jerrys decided to break that team up after the 6th title was a big reason why Chicago became a less than favorable destination for NBA free agents. Kevin thought at the time that word seemed to get around and the Bulls haven't exactly been a place where marquee free agents really want to come. This was well before the Bulls started to draft much better, and that includes Derrick Martell Rose.

There's only a handful of guys left in the league who played back then. 90% of the league has probably never even heard of Jerry Krause.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:37 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
It may seem kind of dated?

It is entirely useless, seeing as the man responsible for "breaking up the dynasty" is working for the Diamondbacks.

TP, it was dated, but I still remember it...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:39 am 
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I remember it too SHARK, but it has zero bearing on he current climate of NBA Free Ajency.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:44 am 
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Well, I don't know why NBA free agents avoid Chicago like the plague! I was just giving my own theory why the Bulls haven't been able to land a marquee free agent since you know who retired!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:45 am 
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The sample size for this is way too small though.

The Bulls were terrible after Jordan left(Thank you for not going for that 7th title to start the rebuilding process!). A free agent isn't just going to show up to play for that talent.

Then, they had the "let's be scrappy and try hard" teams. They also did get Ben Wallace, who was a big name free agent.

They lost out on Lebron(.8 ring won so far), Wade(1.8 rings won so far), and Bosh but it seems like that was never going to happen. They then got Boozer, who was a big name free agent.

So, I don't really know who they missed out on. They made two big signings, that didn't work out great. They won't get Howard, but there are teams all over the place that never had a chance on him because he is dead set on being Jay-Z's friend.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:47 am 
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I blame Bear Weather.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:50 am 
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SHARK wrote:
Well, I don't know why NBA free agents avoid Chicago like the plague! I was just giving my own theory why the Bulls haven't been able to land a marquee free agent since you know who retired!





I would say Brian Cox was a marquee FA..he just sucked in a Bears uni.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:55 am 
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Stars don't want to come to Chicago because of organizational leadership. Reinsdorf has his star in Rose; everyone else is secondary. Monster egos like Howard, Kobe, LBJ, Wade... they could have come to Chicago, but immediately play second-fiddle. I believe it has more to do with organizational vision and the execution of that vision.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:57 am 
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Rick pretty much explained it. Ever since the TMac/Grant Hill letdown of 2000 that perception has been with the Bulls and I'm not sure it's really accurate at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:00 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Rick pretty much explained it. Ever since the TMac/Grant Hill letdown of 2000 that perception has been with the Bulls and I'm not sure it's really accurate at all.

The Bulls & the Magic that year had the most salary cap space of any NBA team, FavreFan. It was so bad for the Bulls that year, ex-GM Jerry Krause couldn't give that $$$$ away. Not even Tim Thomas wanted to come here...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:04 am 
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SHARK wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick pretty much explained it. Ever since the TMac/Grant Hill letdown of 2000 that perception has been with the Bulls and I'm not sure it's really accurate at all.

The Bulls & the Magic that year had the most salary cap space of any NBA team, FavreFan. It was so bad for the Bulls that year, ex-GM Jerry Krause couldn't give that $$$$ away. Not even Tim Thomas wanted to come here...

Yeah but that's because of the stink of Jerry Krause and Tim Floyd. The 2012 Bulls and the 2000 Bulls have the same owner but other than that couldn't be more different. Don't you think Rick did a good job explaining the fallacy of this theory?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:06 am 
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SHARK wrote:
Another possible reason...Taxes. I remember that was a big reason why Tracy McGrady went to Orlando many years ago. Florida, you see, didn't have a state sales tax.

Income tax, you mean? Though Florida doesn't have a sales tax on groceries, which I enjoyed in my time there. And food at Publix is cheap.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:07 am 
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It has been interesting to see how the front office has juggled players during the Jordan era, the Dark Ages, and now during the Rose era. It is evident that Reinsdorf and <insert GM here> operate on a feast of famine mentality. We are seeing similar organizational behavior now as we did during the second half of Jordan's stint.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:10 am 
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Are we counting 2004-2007 as the dark ages? Because those years were about as productive as the Rose era: 41-41 finishes, first-round exits, feelings of optimism.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:12 am 
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What I haven't seen from the Bulls' organization is a bold move like what the Celtics did prior to 2008 when they got Kevin Garnett from the Timberwolves. That bold move helped bring another NBA title to Boston back then. Right now, neither V.P. John Paxson nor G.M. Gar Forman is Danny Ainge, the Boston executive willing to make such a bold move.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:16 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Are we counting 2004-2007 as the dark ages? Because those years were about as productive as the Rose era: 41-41 finishes, first-round exits, feelings of optimism.

Are you serious?

The Bulls had the best record in the league the past two seasons. That's not a 41-41 finish. They made the Eastern Conference Finals last year and were a lock to make it again this year if Rose and Noah didn't get hurt. The 2004-2007 Bulls and the Rose-led Bulls are nothing alike.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:43 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Are we counting 2004-2007 as the dark ages? Because those years were about as productive as the Rose era: 41-41 finishes, first-round exits, feelings of optimism.


I would say so.

"The Dark Ages" for the Bulls is all relative, obviously. A similar proclamation might mean something different for, say, the Charlotte Bobcats.


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