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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Another important point on the legalization issue. Even if we don't want to completely legalize all drugs, we should all agree the punishments should change. Our justice system is supposed to be rehabilitative. It costs about $47,000 to house an inmate in prison for a year and about $24,000 for 12 month inpatient drug treatment programs. These punishments aren't practical and they aren't in line with what we claim our values to be.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
It may. Or gang members may find something else to kill each other over.

Maybe. Nobody knows for sure. All we do know is that we've been doing the same exact thing about drugs for 40 years and have failed massively up to this point. Time to try a different approach.


Oh I agree with that point. I just don't think it would eliminate gang violence.

I think anyone who thinks it would eliminate gang violence is trying to spin their side of it. I think you'd see a drastic reduction in gang violence though. Just my opinion, I dont really have statistical evidence to back it up. Is there stats comparing mafia violence during prohibition to the non-prohibition years? I'm sure there's been studies somewhere on it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:10 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Another important point on the legalization issue. Even if we don't want to completely legalize all drugs, we should all agree the punishments should change. Our justice system is supposed to be rehabilitative. It costs about $47,000 to house an inmate in prison for a year and about $24,000 for 12 month inpatient drug treatment programs. These punishments aren't practical and they aren't in line with what we claim our values to be.


Agree. Highly recommend to read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:17 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Another important point on the legalization issue. Even if we don't want to completely legalize all drugs, we should all agree the punishments should change. Our justice system is supposed to be rehabilitative. It costs about $47,000 to house an inmate in prison for a year and about $24,000 for 12 month inpatient drug treatment programs. These punishments aren't practical and they aren't in line with what we claim our values to be.


Can't be done without being labeled 'Soft on Crime'.

Unless....

Seven people are sitting around. Leo enters. C.J. and Carol are guarding
the doors.

LEO
Good afternoon. I'll make this as quick and direct as I can. There's a chance...

STUART
Why are we in the Press Room?

LEO
This will be pretty fast, Stuart. Faster still if I'm not interrupted. There's a chance that a debate is about to begin over the best way to fight the drug problem in this country. The White House, being among those, who believe more money should be put into treatment. The people you work for, being among those who believe we should put more money into prisons.

Andy and Toby quietly enter from the back and sit.

DICK
Leo, why the 7 of us?

LEO
Dick, in July of '96, your boss's son was arrested for carrying 25 grams of cocaine. That's a crime that usually carries... what Toby?

TOBY
Eight to 15 years.

LEO
And what did the Congressman's son get?

TOBY
Six months house arrest.

LEO
Lynn, your boss's husband was caught stealing Vicodin and Percocet from the hospital at which he served as Chief of Thoracic Surgery. Now, Vicodin and Percocet are schedule-two
drugs in the same legal category as Opium. What was the blue-book value, Toby?

TOBY
Each stolen pill carries the penalty of one year in prison and a monetary fine.

LEO
And what did we have for the Congresswoman's husband?

TOBY
He went to a pre-trial diversion program. There's no longer any criminal record.

LEO
That's not bad.

STUART
Leo, I...

LEO
Stuart, yours is my favorite. Your boss has a daughter who was pulled over with 31 grams of coke and charged with intent to deliver. More over, she's just been indicted by a
federal grand jury in Greenville, South Carolina, along with 18 other people for conspiracy to distribute. Toby...

TOBY
She paid a fine of $2800 and forfeited her car in which the drugs were found.

LEO
The President wants a lively debate.

Leo gives C.J. a signal. C.J. signals to Carol.

LEO
He wants to hear opposition, but he's not gonna stomach hypocrisy. We start hearing "soft on criminals", "soft on drugs" from any of the people you work for, we've got 7 stories ready for page one.

C.J. and Carol let the press into the room.

STUART
You're saber-rattling.

LEO
Here comes the White House Press Corps. Let's find out.

STUART
We're done here.

All seven people get up to leave.

LEO
You play the full nine innings at this level, Stuart. Tell your friends about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:29 pm 
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:lol:

We also would've accepted every President since Regan.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Oh there's a lot of people in that middle group, including board members.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:33 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Oh there's a lot of people in that middle group, including board members.


I'd be in the middle of the polar opposite of that graph.

People who never smoked marijuana. Me. People who don't want to send people to jail for smoking marijuana.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Douchebag wrote:
Terry's Peeps: SOFT ON CRIME

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Terry's Peeps: SOFT ON CRIME


:lol:

I'm a liberal hippie.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:51 am 
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312player wrote:
That report is garbage..if the police can only solve around 40 ish % of homicides then how can this writer determine the motive in all these homicides...Drugs are the main revenue supply for gangs...you legalize drugs you take away a massive amount of money coming in.


Cops know who did the killing in most homicides. Its that evidence thing that keeps from convictions. No "witnesses" or weapons make it hard to convict when a body is just left for dead in the street.

Legalizing drugs wont make gang members value human life anymore than they already do. There will always be something to make money off of illegally. Drugs have very little to do with people who are murdered because someone felt "disrespected".

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:59 am 
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You guys are all missing the biggest benefit of legalizing drugs. Less Lawyers. There are way to many of them & this would certainly thin out the ranks. Seriously though, legalizing something that is bad for people & society is never ever good for people or society. Just imagine the tax revenue though...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:52 am 
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Those things and rugs like them have no real positive effects.

No positive effects? Lest you forget, that fucking rug really tied the room together did it not?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:57 am 
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:57 am 
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312player wrote:
He is right, crime would go down..turf battles would cease to exist.
What are all these gangs going to do?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:01 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
312player wrote:
That report is garbage..if the police can only solve around 40 ish % of homicides then how can this writer determine the motive in all these homicides...Drugs are the main revenue supply for gangs...you legalize drugs you take away a massive amount of money coming in.


But that won't stop gang violence.

It would cut it down significantly though. At least one would think.
If there is one thing that cuts down on gang violence it is increased competition for decreasing revenue from illegal activities.

In reality, the drug trade in the United States probably provides enough money to keep the gangs happy. It's not like gangs didn't exist prior to the introduction of the hardcore drugs that are popular today.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
312player wrote:
He is right, crime would go down..turf battles would cease to exist.
What are all these gangs going to do?


Return to their first love...ice hockey.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
312player wrote:
He is right, crime would go down..turf battles would cease to exist.
What are all these gangs going to do?


Musicals.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:15 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
312player wrote:
He is right, crime would go down..turf battles would cease to exist.
What are all these gangs going to do?


Musicals.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:15 am 
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:lol:

It's almost comical to think about that idea.
Headline: "Mitt Romney declares all drugs to be legal(except coffee because Mormons hate coffee)!".
Gang Leader #1: "Well, I guess that's it for us. Pull all of our guys off the street and let's start reading the paper for jobs".
Gang Leader #2: "Hey everyone! Drugs are legal now! Let's all go to college!".

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:09 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
:lol:

It's almost comical to think about that idea.
Headline: "Mitt Romney declares all drugs to be legal(except coffee because Mormons hate coffee)!".
Gang Leader #1: "Well, I guess that's it for us. Pull all of our guys off the street and let's start reading the paper for jobs".
Gang Leader #2: "Hey everyone! Drugs are legal now! Let's all go to college!".


Almost as funny as this clip from Family Guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlIm-riMN6Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:16 am 
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Legalization is not going to solve all the gang problems or violence but it will help to decrease it dramatically.Where will gangs get the money they are not getting any more? who knows...but the current arrangement is clearly not working and really never has..time for a new strategy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:51 pm 
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312player wrote:
Legalization is not going to solve all the gang problems or violence but it will help to decrease it dramatically.Where will gangs get the money they are not getting any more? who knows...but the current arrangement is clearly not working and really never has..time for a new strategy.


Stealing Air-conditioners could be a new frontier.


Theft of A/C unit ‘devastating’ to impoverished Robbins library

ROBBINS - The public library in has faced dire times in the past few years, so the theft of a $10,000 air conditioning unit last week was more than just a financial blow.

Not long ago, the library’s very future was in doubt, since so many in the town of about 6,600 are out of work and were unable to pay property taxes, a major source of library funding.

Federal and state grants, and gifts from the community, including a $25,000 check from NBA star and Robbins native Dwyane Wade, have kept the doors open, but the staff, paid minimum wage, has not gotten raises in six years, library administrator Priscilla Coatney said.

Now the William Leonard Public Library District has to contend with another challenge. Late last week, someone climbed onto the roof at 13820 Central Park Ave. and carefully dismantled and stole the HVAC unit.

That left the library, which conducts summer kids’ programs, adult literacy and computer programs, and serves as an area cooling center, without air conditioning, and a replacement bill likely to exceed $10,000.

“We opened late on Friday, at 3 p.m.,” she said Wednesday. Staff noticed it was warm inside “and we thought it was because (the air conditioner) was broken.”

They called repair people, who couldn’t make it out until this week. In the meantime, she and her husband were outside of the building, looking up to the roof, when her husband said, “They’re not going to be able to fix the air conditioner.” He pointed out that the unit had been taken apart — the housing was laid out on the roof, all working parts gone.

“Our repairman said he imagined they were up there a couple hours,” Coatney said. “They took everything except for the outside part. The heating element, the cooling, the condenser ... the wires were cut. What kind of mind would do that?”

The stolen air conditioner “is a commercial unit that cools over 5,000 square feet,” she said. The dismantling “was done very neatly. If you go on the roof you can see the screws — they left them in a nice pile. They didn’t tear it up, they just gutted it.

“This is devastating,” she said. “We were lucky Monday and Tuesday because the heat had gone down,” and on Tuesday she bought four fans to cool the library until the A/C is replaced. She noted the building does not have windows that can be opened, either.

“We are insured, but we have a deductible to pay,” Coatney said. “We were in dire financial straits. We’ve been able to hang on, but it’s been difficult. I don’t have money for a deductible.”

Coatney said the library got the HVAC unit four years ago through a grant from their state representative and Secretary of State Jesse White’s office, and at the time it cost about $9,300. She imagines a replacement will cost more.

In addition to being a place where school children go after class, the library conducts literacy and computer classes for children and adults, hosts book clubs, and serves as a cooling center in summer and warming center in winter.

“I have approximately 30-35 children every day reading,” Coatney said. She explained that the computer access the library provides residents with is especially valuable because “less than 70 percent of homes have computers and less than 20 percent have an Internet connection.”

The library, Coatney said, “is like the hub of the community. What the person, or persons, did, affects hundreds and hundreds of people on a daily basis.”

A group of community members have offered a reward of $1,000 for information leading to the arrest of whoever stole the unit.

Coatney would like to see that person arrested. But she added that she’d also like a moment with the thief or thieves. “I’d like to just speak to them and see what they were thinking.”

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Quote:
The biggest medical marijuana dispensary on earth has been targeted for closure by federal prosecutors in Northern California.

Harborside Health Center, which is reputedly the biggest cannabis collective on the planet, has been threatened with property seizure by U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag's office, according to spokeswoman Gaynell Rogers, reports The Associated Press.

Employees on Monday found the federal complaints taped to doors at Harborside's two locations, according to Rogers.

"Harborside has nothing to be ashamed of, and will contest the Federal actions openly and publicly, with every legal means at our disposal," the collective said in a Wednesday press release. "We look forward to our day in court, and are confident that justice is on our side. Come what may, we shall continue to care for our patients unless we are physically prevented from doing so.

Should Harborside be forced to close:

• 100,000 patients will return to the illegal marketplace
• Street drug sales and law enforcement costs will both rise
• More than $3 million in tax revenue will be destroyed
• More than 100 current employees will become jobless.

The action represents yet another escalation in a months-long, nationwide crackdown on medical marijuana. Northern California U.S. Attorney Haag has been among the most enthusiastic participants in the crackdown, saying last year she would shut dispensaries that were within 1,000 feet of schools -- but Harborside isn't, according to the AP.

"Harborside isnt even within 1,000 feet of a school, so this would seem to go against everything U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag has said to date about her enforcement priorities," Tom Angell of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) told Toke of the Town Wednesday afternoon.

Federal prosecutors, including Haag, have in the past attempted to at least give the appearance of adhering to the Ogden Memo and repeated assurances from both President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder that going after state-complaint providers of medical marijuana wouldn't be prioritized.

Does the fact that they're no longer even trying to go by their own guidelines -- i.e., the 1,000-foot "rule" -- mean that the crackdown is entering an ominous new phase? Stay tuned.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:13 pm 
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It doesn't matter if they legalize drugs where gangs are concerned. Do you think because the drugs are made legal, that it would then be legal for the gangs to process and sell the drugs? Hell no. They would be sold in a manner in which the Government could collect taxes on the sales of drugs. Gangs would then be in competition for drug sales with the pharmacies that could sell them legally. Drugs are the only way some people think they can really make money. They may be too stupid or lazy to seek a better path, so they choose the one they know. The fact is, most of the murders connected to the drug trade, happens in the inner city between rival gang factions. The more of them that die, the better. It's just unfortunate they can't shoot straight enough to avoid killing innocent bystanders.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Classic example of why the War on Drugs has massively failed on almost every level: A cop assumes all drug dealers are stupid and/or lazy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Score one for Team Hank and FF. Study shows softer crime laws don't lead to an increase in users.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... users.html


Quote:
Niamh Eastwood from Release, the authors of the report, said: “Pursuing a harsh criminal justice approach does not lead to a reduction in drug use but it does lead to significant harms for individuals.


You subtitute "common sense" for "Niamh Eastwood from Release, the authors of the report," and that quote would be just as accurate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:38 am 
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Look it really is not that hard to understand..you cut revenue you cut power, You may think all drug dealers are lazy fucks but that just ain't true..i know guys who have more ambition and hustle than you could ever imagine ..the black market drives the price up..make something illegal and the price goes up..the demand stays the same but the price will rise..that I promise.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:49 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Classic example of why the War on Drugs has massively failed on almost every level: A cop assumes all drug dealers are stupid and/or lazy.



Try reading my post more carefully. I said they MAY be too stupid or lazy. I know that some drug dealers are very clever and organized. The drug empire in New York that was built by the charachter played by Denzel Washington in the movie American Gangster (based on a true story) was a smart, organized person. He certainly was not lazy. But most of people involved in the drug trade are dumb and lazy. Rather than going to school (that homework thing is a drag) and getting a college degree (most would probably be eligible for need based scholarships/grants and have to pay nothing) and getting a good job, they choose to deal drugs. It's easier and they get quick, easy money from it. Of course, the fact that it may lead to their own death or incarcerration is ignored. But again, if drugs were legalized, the gangs would not profit at all from it and likely lose money as people could get their drug needs met legally and at a cheaper price.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:52 am 
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Steve I don't believe you've ever sold drugs or done homework in your life so you really have no clue which one is harder. Ive done both. Selling drugs is harder.

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