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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:43 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
A pinch hitter and a 3rd catcher. Keep dreaming big, GD.


Youklis was their big move. I'm not anticipating them moving any legitimate prospects or taking on any significant salary. Those limitations result in things like pinch hitters, backup catchers.

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Keyser Soze
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:43 am 
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I disagree. I think Kenny is going to get another arm. I think it will be a bullpen arm but it wouldn't shock me if he adds a starter.
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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 am 
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I think the Cubs can get something decent for Dempster, but its not going to be over the top. He is having a good year (albeit on a garbage team, but a good year nonetheless), but he is also a true rent-a-player. If he gets traded to the Pirates, odds are he is not going to sign there.

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RFDC
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:12 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I think the Cubs can get something decent for Dempster, but its not going to be over the top. He is having a good year (albeit on a garbage team, but a good year nonetheless), but he is also a true rent-a-player. If he gets traded to the Pirates, odds are he is not going to sign there.


That's about what I think as well.

:lol: @ JORR calling the Cubs one of the worst teams in baseball history. Nice

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SHARK
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
I disagree. I think Kenny is going to get another arm. I think it will be a bullpen arm but it wouldn't shock me if he adds a starter.

I tend to agree that KW's #1 wish is veteran help for his bullpen, Keyser. I'm not so sure that he has enough to offer in return for Matt Garza, Cole Hamels, Zach Greinke or other veteran starters that'll be available. This Gavin Floyd soreness in his arm story does bear watching though.
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Makaveli
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:02 pm 
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The temptation is to go for it. That being said I would shop in the bargain aisle.
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SHARK
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Makaveli wrote:
The temptation is to go for it. That being said I would shop in the bargain aisle.

They probably are...wait for it...ALL IN right now.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:

Outside of Verlander and Valverde they do not. The other 4 starters have a combined ERA of 4.59, batting avg against of .285 with a WHIP of 1.42. That is not going to get it done in the AL. The entire rotation has given up 53 gopher balls which is a ton when you take into consideration how big Comerica Park is.

Even Valverde who has been good not great has a WHIP of 1.37 and an ERA of 4.11 so he has given it up too. Other than Dotel, the rest of the regulars in the pen have very pedestrian numbers at best.

Actually, looking at the pitching, its pretty close to what their numbers were last year. (Verlander Dominant-Other 4 guys decent with ERA's in the low to mid 4's) Its the offense that has been the difference.

I think if the offense gets rolling they can go on a tear.

I think you put way too much value on defense, too.

EDIT: Non Verlander ERA last year: 4.29

Just among infield plays, the White Sox have allowed 14 unearned runs this year. The Tigers have allowed 32. I put value on defense because defense can help you win games.

Not nearly as much as pitching and offense....its the least significant...by far
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RFDC
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Per the score: Sox have their sights set on Greinke

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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:32 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Not nearly as much as pitching and offense....its the least significant...by far
Look at the plays that Mike Moustakas and Alexei Ramirex made yesterday and then try to spin some hogwash about how defense doesn't help you win games.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.
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Rod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Not nearly as much as pitching and offense....its the least significant...by far
Look at the plays that Mike Moustakas and Alexei Ramirex made yesterday and then try to spin some hogwash about how defense doesn't help you win games.

Offense is about 20 times as important as defense.
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Rod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Not nearly as much as pitching and offense....its the least significant...by far
Look at the plays that Mike Moustakas and Alexei Ramirex made yesterday and then try to spin some hogwash about how defense doesn't help you win games.



Well, it didn't help Moustakas.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Not nearly as much as pitching and offense....its the least significant...by far
Look at the plays that Mike Moustakas and Alexei Ramirex made yesterday and then try to spin some hogwash about how defense doesn't help you win games.



Well, it didn't help Moustakas.

:lol:

And Ramirez play was only necessary because the pitching in that inning was poor
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RFDC
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?


They would almost have to include some thing from the major league roster. Viciedo or maybe Beckham?

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mel junior
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:37 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.


Greinke would melt down in Chicago.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?

Depends. What are my chances on signing him to a deal after this year?


I would not rent him.

That almost NEVER works.


I think ONE starter in the history of baeball has won a WS game after being traded.
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SHARK
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?

That's the question. The White Sox are trying to downplay the significance of Gavin Floyd's sore arm and think he'll avoid the DL. Another proven starting pitcher might be necessary for the White Sox to win the AL Central.
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:39 pm 
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mel junior wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.


Greinke would melt down in Chicago.

He's been pretty solid the last couple years in the mental department.


IMO, a team that has won 1 World series in 90 years....when you have a chance, you go for it like Sage Moonblood
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SHARK
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Guys like Zach Greinke & Matt Garza probably could make the transition to American League, but I'm not so sure about Ryan Dempster. He might want to stay in the National League.
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Apologist
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:42 pm 
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SHARK, those guys have pitched in the AL.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm 
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SHARK wrote:
Guys like Zach Greinke & Matt Garza probably could make the transition to American League, but I'm not so sure about Ryan Dempster. He might want to stay in the National League.

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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm 
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The Sox should trade for U.N. Decided, or at the very least consult with Ban Ki-moon before they make a deal.

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Rod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:46 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?


They would almost have to include some thing from the major league roster. Viciedo or maybe Beckham?


I would think a realistic trade probably would have to include at least one guy off the team. Maybe Quintana or Nate Jones. I'd do that in a minute. If you're talking Viciedo or Beckham, it gets a little tougher. I think taking Viciedo out weakens the lineup too much. But if you could get Greinke or Hamels for something like Nestor Molina and Beckham, I'd probably have to roll the dice with Hudson/Escobar at second.

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mel junior
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:29 pm 
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RPB - looks like Kenny agrees with you:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-h ... inke-derby
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Good to see they are setting their sights higher than an also-ran like Dempster.

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lipidquadcab
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:56 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I think ONE starter in the history of baeball has won a WS game after being traded.

Well, I could think of one off the top of my head...

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DREEEEEAAAM WEAVER!!!
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good dolphin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Kenny swings for the fences always, usually I agree with his aggression


THey should definitely go after Greinke. They have a real chance this year.



But what could they give up for Greinke? Would you trade Viciedo for that type of pitcher?


They would almost have to include some thing from the major league roster. Viciedo or maybe Beckham?


I would think a realistic trade probably would have to include at least one guy off the team. Maybe Quintana or Nate Jones. I'd do that in a minute. If you're talking Viciedo or Beckham, it gets a little tougher. I think taking Viciedo out weakens the lineup too much. But if you could get Greinke or Hamels for something like Nestor Molina and Beckham, I'd probably have to roll the dice with Hudson/Escobar at second.


If they are going to trade Quintana and Beckham, I'd much rather pursue someone like Garza who will be here next year as well. That covers the Sox to let Peavy walk

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:54 am 
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lipidquadcab wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I think ONE starter in the history of baeball has won a WS game after being traded.

Well, I could think of one off the top of my head...

Image

DREEEEEAAAM WEAVER!!!

Yep, thats it.
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