Do you mean starter as in any regular or just pitcher?

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In my own opinion, I think the White Sox need a veteran arm for the bullpen. If you saw the bottom 8th inning last night when the 2 Sox kiddie relievers had a devil of a time trying to find the strike zone and Adrian Gonzalez made them pay with a 3-run homer & a Mike Aviles RBI single in a 4-run inning that sealed the deal for the Red Sox, this would've been a good spot for Jesse Crain, not Leyton Septimo or Nate Jones.

However, this Gavin Floyd sore arm story isn't going away either, and Ranger hinted on his postgame last night that Gavin could be staring at a stint on the DL, perhaps as soon as today. Unfortunately, they can't get BOTH a starting pitcher and/or reliever before the MLB Trade Deadline in 2 weeks. I don't think they have enough in the minors, let alone the ML roster worth dealing.

Kenneth Williams should easily command at least a major league 5th starter if his father were to include him in a trade.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

But Garza isn't good.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Greinke would go a long way toward shoring up the pen. Besides the fact that he usually pitches deep into games, he'd move Humber to the bullpen. Then, if Danks can come back, Quintana would be a solid lefty there, assuming he isn't part of the deal.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Ill bet he'll match or surpass Peavy's numbers going forward though.

Just pitchers, obviously


Probably most teams ever had a position player.

Which numbers? I'll bet Peavy has a better record from here to the end of their careers regardless of where they both end up playing.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Starting next season going forward (dolphin's proposal of replacing him)

Peavy will probably get hurt again and Garza is younger.

They'll both probably get hurt at some point. I'm saying Peavy's winning percentage from this day forward will be higher than Garza's until the ends of their respective careers. Garza will probably be a Yankee shortly so he should have a huge advantage.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You really love that Win stat.

This day forward isnt the proposal. Starts next year with the replacement.

I dont know. I think a 3.85 ERA over a 1000 innings, mostly spent in the AL east, is better than "not good"

Lost in all of this Greinke talk is the fact that he's been awful lately.

Last three starts:

GS QS CG W L S K BBI INN HA ERA WHIP
3 0 0 0 1 0 11 4 8.0 14 10.12 2.25

Uh...it was 20 minutes ago.

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I think that's a pretty reasonable stance.

Uh, no it wasnt. It was replying to dolphin's suggestion that he replace Peavy. I thought about adding that caveat because some jerkstore would come in like you are, but I know JORR and dolphin are not like that, so I left it alone.

Whatever, man. You said it.

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Right. Because winners are winners. It isn't an accident when a starter has a .580 winning percentage over 200 starts. An ERA is subject to conditions far more than a winning percentage.

Garza is a useful starter. Like Javy Vazquez was. They're similar in many ways. They aren't guys to build a rotation around. And they're not going to put you over the top. If the Sox are going to replace Humber or Axelrod with Garza, that's great. He isn't likely to replace Peavy. He can probably replace "Losing Pitcher" John Danks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Orr, your fascination with the W/L stat is something. I consider it to be the least predictive pitching stat. King Felix and his CY a couple years back agrees.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Danks won more big games in 2008 than Vazquez has in his career.

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Actually, it's predicting Hernandez pretty well. He's about .500 nearly every year.

And I wouldn't call it a "fascination". It's simply a fact that pitchers pitch the games they're in. They don't pitch other hypothetical games based on their averages. They actually have to take the mound and face another team while another pitcher faces their team. Any way you slice it, 8-16 is a shitty season.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

How do you define a "big game"?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Basing a pitcher's performance on something that's out of his control is silly.

Pitching 9 innings and giving up 1 run is a great game. That doesn't change because you lost 1-0.

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Why are you refusing to credit the other guy who gave up zero?

It's silly to talk about what's in and out of a single player's "control". The pitcher has the ball. All he has to do is give up less runs than the guy he's facing. It's pretty simple. If the guy he's facing allows 5 and he allows 3, that's a better performance than the one you described.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Game #163
Game 3 of the ALDS

Both games were win or go home, doesn't get any bigger.

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Actually, going .500 with the Seattle offense of the last few years is quite an accomplishment. Oh wait, that makes him a mediocre pitcher...

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Nowhere did I refuse to give credit to the opposing pitcher in that scenario. I simply refused to discredit the performance of the first pitcher.

Sorry for bringing this up again. We just fundamentally disagree on this.

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I'll grant you that the Seattle offenses he's had over the past couple seasons have been far worse than even a normal number 30 offense. I've never called Hernandez "mediocre". He may be a special case.

But when we're talking about something like the season where Ryan led in ERA while going 8-16, his offense wasn't bad. And the difference between two big league offense in the space of a single game is negligible. It certainly should be easily overcome by such a "dominating" pitcher. It's rare when the worst offense averages more than a run less than the best offenses (Seattle being a notable exception). So all we're really asking is for a pitcher we would consider to be one of the best to overcome a single run.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Don't be sorry. I enjoy this argument.

My point is the two pitchers are completely aware of the situation they face. They know that one run may decide the game. They have to pitch accordingly. That doesn't mean I think guys "pitch to the score". But the pressures are entirely different. And some guys thrive on that pressure and others don't. The ones that don't end up losing 1-0. That doesn't mean they're horseshit. But it does say something about them.

Another example would be the way Youkilis is hitting in this series. Please don't misunderstand me. I think he'd like to get a hit every time he bats regardless of what team he's facing. I don't think he's "trying harder" here. But I do think he's gotten him self in a different zone due to his desire to say "FUCK YOU!" to Bobby Valentine. We can't prove that one way or another. But I don't think it's a ridiculous thought.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Have fun with this one guys.

Matt Thornton.....what a worthless piece of shit.

His fall from grace is shocking.