Why is it fair for a kid from Penn State to lose his records? He didn't rape anyone and didn't cover anything up. Life isn't fair.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

What would happen if Penn State won a national title sometime from 1998-2011? Shouldn't the runner-up be awarded the trophy and be recognized as that year's champion? Would the NCAA really have no champion listed for that season.

Just erase everything Penn State did. The games should be counted as losses, and the Penn State's players stats should all be recorded as 0's.

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I think that's what happened in hoops with Villanova/Howard Porter and the Calapari teams.

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The Court will accord substantial deference to the government's immigration policies, particularly those that implicate matters of national security.

I can't imagine this is true. I think the other team will have to provide (i.e., pay) scholarships, but perhaps it won't count against the team who the player is transferring too. In other words, you get 85 scholarships, but maybe 86 if you get a PSU transfer? Just a guess.

Is it really that hard to follow?

I said the "death penalty" won't ever happen again. You claimed that was my opinion and there is no evidence to have that opinion. I stated that both Penn State and Baylor didn't get the "death penalty" and it's hard to imagine many cases worse than either one of those.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Teams can take as many PSU players as they want for THIS year. If programs use a scholarship on a Penn State transfer, it would not count against their 85 this year but would in subsequent years.

I think the "how long it took SMU to be relevant again" thing is misleading. SMU was really only good because of the stuff they did that got them the Death Penalty. Before the Pony Excess shit they were a mediocre team. It's not like they were at a Penn State level. Then when they sucked the SWC fell apart and they were toast. Sure the "Death Penalty" hurt them, but I think people are misremembering how good SMU was. They won the SWC a total of 1 time in the 50s 60s and 70s.

Looked it up and SMU was 5-6 in their 4th season after the death penalty, which is a reasonable record for them in their pre-NCAA violating days. IIRC SMU gave themselves an extra year of the death penalty when the NCAA said they could only play 7 games, all on the road the next season, and SMU said fuck that, we'll just sit it out.

It was hard to follow because you didn't realize I was talking about you saying these sanctions are muh more damaging than the death penalty would be. You went as far as to say the death penalty wouldn't even be effective. It's not stupid to point out that's an opinion, because you keep presenting it as fact with no evidence to support it. It's the same reason Kid constantly calls out SHARK.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

USC got stripped of their national title because of Reggie Bush, do we consider Oklahoma the national champ for 04, I don't.

Right on both counts. SMU was a crappy program in a conference that had been falling apart since the 70s (and would be dead within a decade). People learn too much from the SMU example.

The death penalty sucks as a penalty because it hurts so many innocent programs. In any event, Kentucky basketball has been given the death penalty. They were okay. SMU wasn't. There are no universally applicable lessons here, but if I had to guess, the PSU death penalty would be much closer to Kentucky than SMU.

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Fire Phil Emery

The NCAA didn't want to do it because that's $60 million they would lose.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

You know the NCAA isn't pocketing that money, right?

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Fire Phil Emery

It's unclear to me how the money is divided up between the school, the conference and the NCAA, but the money is still the issue. If the NCAA is really a non-profit organization then the money shouldn't be the biggest factor.

For as long as there have been sports athletic programs have always been given a free pass on a lot of things. This is the one chance the NCAA has to say that football really isn't as important as academics, but they failed.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Ok, I'll simplify it. 100% of that $60 million fine is being donated to charity.

There also seems to be a lot of confusion on another point, so I'll make this clear too: the NCAA makes almost all its money from basketball. It makes practically nothing from football.

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Fire Phil Emery

The fine is spread out over a five-year period, so it's still only 20 percent per year.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

By saying the correct thing - life isn't fair - you pretty much shit all over the rest of your point.

Somebody's gonna be the person that's at the wrong place at the wrong time, and the raped kids are probably ready to be done with that label.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

The Michigan Fab 5 had to vacate all their NCAA games because Chris Webber took money from a guy. It's not fair to the other players, but sometimes you end up guilty by association.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Both teams in the 2010 OSU/PSU game "vacated," that's awesome.

It's stupid to point out "that is just your opinion" on a message board because that is kind of the whole point of a message board. Of course I can't see into the future.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well now I don't know what to believe in anymore ......

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Believe in me Don.

Be in me....

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IB, there is another thread about this topic. You should stop in there if you can.

Have you decided of the NCAA has "jurisdiction" in the Penn St. situation yet?

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It's still doesn't. But if Penn State is going to cop a plea agreement and refuse to appeal it, then jurisdiction doesn't matter. The process was a bit of a sham and NCAA bylaws don't really have authority over this stuff, unless you lean really hard (as the NCAA did) on preambles and airy statements about idealism.

I won't shed too many years for Penn State, but I really dislike the precedent.

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Fire Phil Emery

Ok. I'll say it for you. You were wrong.

The NCAA clearly had the authority to hand down the punishments. They just did it. It was all over the news. Maybe you caught some of it. The part about Penn St. "signing off" on it was designed to suppress some of the morons in West PA that were gonna go crazy about it. Whether they signed off or not, these sanctions were gonna happen.

BTW - there is gonna be a 4 team football playoff in a couple years too.

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Doing something is not the same as having the authority, under your own rules, to do something. But if no one is going to stop them it doesn't matter what their rules say.

Nowhere in the bylaws does it say the NCAA can use the procedure it did, and you have to really stretch some language about honesty and sportsmanship to get NCAA rules to cover what Penn State did. But if Penn State can't appeal--and they can't, both because they pled and because they'd be pilloried by the Dan Bernsteins of the world--and if the NCAA won't independently abide by the limits of its jurisdiction--and it won't, apparently, once again because of the Dan Bernsteins of the world--then there's no real way to stop them.

I don't like the decision precisely because of that. Either the NCAA acted outside its powers, which is bad, or it now has a completely undefined authority to police schools for morality infractions, which is worse. My guess is they write up some bylaws that cover the situation in the next year that directly apply here. But those bylaws do not exist right now.

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Fire Phil Emery

Where I *was* wrong was in thinking that other schools would push back against this use in NCAA power. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, because whichever school tries to make that argument is going to be branded pro-child rape by idiots in the media.

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Fire Phil Emery

Why do you support the raping of children?

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So to be clear - since you've obviously read all of the bylaws - does it say in there that they don't have the authority to hand down these sanctions?

Because they just did it. And Penn St. didn't argue. Neither did anyone else. (and stop with the "pleading" - this isn't a court. Nobody "pled" in this situation. Sorta like nobody had "jurisdiction").

So if the NCAA actually did it, nobody opposed it, and it's actually happening - I'd say it's pretty clear that they have the authority to do so. You can admit that. They also just implemented a 4 team playoff.




And despite what he probably thinks, the "Dan Bernsteins of the world" had absolutely nothing to do with the sanctions that the NCAA just handed out.

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On the playoff: no, "they" didn't. The conferences did. The NCAA will have about as much role in the playoffs as you or I will.

On the punishments: I have read the relevant bylaws, yes. If you don't want to call it jurisdiction, call it whatever you want. The NCAA is only supposed to do what it is authorized to do under its rules. It has gone outside of that authority. It did so because it would be pilloried for not doing anything in the national media. If this were an ordinary case, Penn State would appeal and raise he'll publicly. But they can't do that here because they'd be crucified for it.

And yes, PSU pled. If they hadn't, this case would still be ongoing, because absolutely none of the NCAA said normal enforcement procedures have begun. There was no NCAA investigation. No letter of allegations was sent, nor a response proffered. There was no hearing. Emmert went to PSU and said "accept this or else" and they accepted it. If you don't want to call that a plea bargain, make up some new name for it, but the idea is exactly the same.

You seem to just be saying "The NCAA just did it, so it must be allowed to do it." But who is going to stop them here if they do something they are not allowed to do under their own rules?

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Fire Phil Emery