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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:09 pm 
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BD wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
BD wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I should amend my statement. The only protest I can remember being upheld was the pine tar game. Scioscia is a fucking tool. He's always bunting an whining to umpires. Most overrated manager since Gene Mauch.


Why is he overrated? I thought his teams have generally pretty good.


Because of very good players.


Can't that be said of any manager? It ultimately comes down to how good your players are. How do you judge if a manager is good at his job if their success hinges on having very good players?



To a degree, yes, but the fact is, it isn't. The media doesn't fetishize Charlie Manuel or Ron Washington as great managers and both of them have been more successful than Scioscia. Jim Leyland is under .500 for his career but viewed as great.

I think way too much is made of managers. They lose more games than they win. I dislike those that are constantly trying to insinuate themselves into the game. RFDC asks if I'd prefer Ventura over Scioscia and my answer is definitely. Not that Ventura is perfect, but he pretty much writes down the nine best names and stays the fuck out of the way. He never tries to lawyer umpires. It just doesn't really work. We've all watched a lot of baseball. Does arguing really get a manager anywhere? Then what's the point? The only time a manager should come out is to stop an angry player from getting bounced or to get a clarification. Scioscia and Leyland like to whine. That helps get them categorized as "good".

A manager's biggest job is to get all the guys on the team pulling together. There are several ways to do it. Ozzie Guillen was good at that important part of the job. But he mitigated it somewhat by overmanaging during the games. He always wants to try to control what happens on the field. So does Scioscia. The players play the game. Let them do it. How good can Scioscia be if he doesn't understand that sacrificing runners from first and second to second and third is a terrible strategy?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Leyland's numbers are skewed by the 98 Marlins.


Just sayin


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:18 pm 
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He had some good years with the Pirates in the 90's too.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think way too much is made of managers. They lose more games than they win. I dislike those that are constantly trying to insinuate themselves into the game. RFDC asks if I'd prefer Ventura over Scioscia and my answer is definitely. Not that Ventura is perfect, but he pretty much writes down the nine best names and stays the fuck out of the way. He never tries to lawyer umpires. It just doesn't really work. We've all watched a lot of baseball. Does arguing really get a manager anywhere? Then what's the point? The only time a manager should come out is to stop an angry player from getting bounced or to get a clarification. Scioscia and Leyland like to whine. That helps get them categorized as "good".

A manager's biggest job is to get all the guys on the team pulling together. There are several ways to do it. Ozzie Guillen was good at that important part of the job. But he mitigated it somewhat by overmanaging during the games. He always wants to try to control what happens on the field. So does Scioscia. The players play the game. Let them do it. How good can Scioscia be if he doesn't understand that sacrificing runners from first and second to second and third is a terrible strategy?


I get a lot of what you are saying. But just having a hard time thinking that you would really want a first year manager in your dugout over a guy who has won a world series? Wouldn't the experience alone be worth having Scoiscia?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
He had some good years with the Pirates in the 90's too.

I just happened to look at his wikipedia a while back and was suprised to see him around .500 but the 98 Marlins were 54-108


Even WITH a rookie phenom named Ryan Dempster


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:27 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I get a lot of what you are saying. But just having a hard time thinking that you would really want a first year manager in your dugout over a guy who has won a world series? Wouldn't the experience alone be worth having Scoiscia?



I really don't want the manager to do anything except put the best players on the field. I'm pretty sure Ventura can do that as well as anybody. All of that running game stuff is bullshit and that's what managers do.

I can tell you this, I don't want a guy who is going to sacrifice runners from first and second at all. When Hawk is getting all happy because the Sox moved runners with a bunt saying, "That'll get the job done!" and the non-hitter is returning to the dugout to high-fives, I'm cursing my television or yelling at the field. And when the Angels have a White Sox pitcher in big trouble with two on and nobody out, I thank the heavens for idiots like Mike Scioscia who will likely give my team a free out.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:14 pm 
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have you seen a manager that think does what you want better than anyone else?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:19 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
have you seen a manager that think does what you want better than anyone else?



I think Weaver was great. Even his ridiculous umpire-baiting was funny. I don't think he took himself seriously.

And while LaRussa did try to insinuate himself into the games, he did it in a way that was different than others. He was a real innovator. He wasn't afraid to try something that might make him look ridiculous. However, I don't think he would have had the nerve to do some of that stuff as a young guy, like when he was with the Sox.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Mike DiGiovanna ‏@MikeDiGiovanna
As expected, MLB hasa denied #Angels protest of Friday night's loss to #White Sox.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:28 pm 
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