Occupy Augusta!!! Maybe Martha Burk will show up at Augusta again with her 50 supporters.

No one really cares about this issue.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

No it's not. No one here cares about THAT woman and you know it. Every time you say that its obvious you are trying to obscure the issue.



Well, yeah Rick when you are being ridiculous with the Strawman, im gonna match you.

But Im fairly certain your stance has been gender segregation is acceptable in some places in society, was it not?


Edit: Here it is. You used the word separation. My apologies.

Ill agree there. Its not a life or death issue. That doesnt mean what they are doing is right though.

Fair enough.

Your point that they arent breaking any laws is noted.

It is about that woman, and the small list of women who would ever be eligible for that club. If she gets accepted into the club how has anything changed for women in general? So a woman at Augusta can now make her own tee time rather than having a friend call and make it(women can play at Augusta with no issues). What a major victory for women! One woman can now make a tee time there! In the future, 4 or 5 more woman may be able to do the same.

Are you saying that gender segregation is not acceptable in some places in society? I hope you dislike the boy scouts and girl scouts just as deeply. I hope you dislike colleges who allow fraternities and sororities too. I hope you dislike the NBA for daring to have a WNBA and an NBA. I hope you dislike that someone would dare open up a health club called Curves for women.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But I think you do see the difference, Rick. And the conversation isn't about one woman who happens to have made it to a C-level position at IBM or even just about Augusta National. It's also about all the other golf clubs with similar rules that Frank was challenging RPB to name.

I think if you were a middle manager at a company run by women and there was an outing at a women-only club where business would undoubtedly be discussed and all the female middle managers were welcome, you might see things a little differently.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This is changing on it's own. I believe there are only a few courses in the whole country now that women can't play(Augusta isn't one of them as women can). There are more that don't allow women to be members, though most of the time the husband is the official member and many have "associate memberships" if that isn't possible. I just don't see Augusta accepting a woman member sending shockwaves around the country club world and all of a sudden the all important country club membership door opens for women at every club. Maybe it would and society would be, um, better?
At Augusta, women can play the course. They just have to be with a member. So, that's not a fair comparison. If I wasn't welcome at the women-only club that would be unfair. Women aren't unwelcome at Augusta.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course he does.

Now he's just Bricking.

No one except you is talking about that woman.

And just because it wont be some great victory for women's rights doesnt mean its not worthwhile.....In my opinion at least.






Not the same thing.

Scouts are children. Thats a little different. But I would have no issue if there was just "Scouts" and not two separate ones.

The WNBA exists because the women can't compete physically. If a female LeBron or Shaq comes along, they will be able to play in the NBA


I dont love places like Curves, think it conflicts with the whole equal thing but they arent hosting a giant money making tournament every year. If they were, Id be more inclined to aruge against them.


Look, this is real simple. Its a dumb rule being held onto buy a bunch of good ol boys. Thats my opinion. Im not sure why that bothers people so much.

It seems like your thoughts are more out of a dislike of the country club environment than the fact that at some clubs women can't be members. That's fair because there are a lot of things that aren't great about it. However, I believe that a club that is either women only or men only should be allowed to exist if they want to even if they operate for a week out of the year with an expanded audience.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

We've already crossed a bridge here regarding public/private. When you own a business, it's private, but there are laws that say you can't discriminate in hiring. If you own a building, it's your private property, by there are laws that say you can't discriminate in renting. If you own a bar, it's your private bar, but you don't get to make the call on whether to allow smoking. And make no mistake, there are people who disagree with all those laws based upon the same concepts you are using to support your argument in favor of Augusta.

I completely understand the desire to have a club where "boys can be boys". Once women are admitted as members, the dynamics of that club are changed forever. But I think we put the greater good of society over our right to tell dirty jokes and comfortably fart in front of our friends without the potential eye-rolling of unwanted women. There are also plenty of dopes who don't feel comfortable with blacks in their clubs because then they have to watch the racist things they say and it's rather uncomfortable to plan a Klan meeting with Tiger sitting next to you at the clubhouse bar.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Fair enough. I disagree with the last part.

Racial and gender separation are different things though. There is a lot more leeway going both directions to treat men and women differently. It's logical. There is very little difference between people of different races but there are clear differences between people of different genders. That doesn't mean that our society has to accept all gender discrimination. They shouldn't. However, there is a logical reason for gender separation in many cases. For instance, a place like Curves is a great thing. I have no problem with them doing everything they legally can to make men feel uncomfortable about joining. Sometimes, in certain circumstances, you want to be around people of your own gender.

I think deep down, if we all thought about it, there are a bunch of reasons why we consider the separation of men and women in certain circumstances to be acceptable. That doesn't mean it's always acceptable, and it may not be in terms of golf club membership, but that's ultimately why I leave that choice up to the members of that club. I don't look at a female not being in a grouping of 300 other men as something that is destructive to anything just like I don't think that a health club designed for females is.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Invited two women to be members. Looks like the world has now changed for all women.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

One of them is Condoleeza Rice.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Im glad we live in a world where they felt enough pressure to change policy.

Problem is that they still serve chicken sandwiches there.......

Why is the world better because of this?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Same reasons I wrote in the previous 5 pages.

I like equality and private or not, this was an old boys club that represented ugly exclusionary parts of our country's history.

Plus, I dont like Hootie

Are you saying that gender specific clubs are ugly and exclusionary?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Im saying Augusta was based on the fact that they had to be forced to let blacks in.

What does that have to do with letting a woman in?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think the reasoning behind their exclusionary practices was prejudice and that proves it.

I just don't think we should compare exclusion by race with exclusion by gender. Judge each on it's own merits. I can't come up with any reason why you should exclude people by race. I think everyone, whether a man or a woman, can understand that there are reasons why you would exclude people by gender.

So, do you think that gender specific clubs are ugly and exclusionary?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not by definition, each case would have to be looked at on its own.

What makes Augusta National any different than a group like the Belizean Grove?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The douchebag should go out to the people who worship the golf course rather than the people who made it great.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If a private club or organization wants to exclude people based on race or gender, why in the world would those who are being excluded want to join that club???

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

a) Indignation
b) Sense of entitlement to what you don't currently have
c) Sense of martyrdom
d) To shit on someone else's perceived 'fun' if you can't be part of it
e) To prove a point
f) Because white men are the root cause of all the world's evils
g) Attention whoring

etc.



Your point was fine without the sanctimony. I don't think "society" is any better because two broads are on the official rolls of Augusta National .... I'll wait to see if there's a significant uptick in, say, our nation's juvenile literacy levels directly due to this momentous occasion before passing final judgment I guess.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George