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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:29 pm 
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You could make an argument for #3 behind Halas and Ditka.

And if the Bears win a Super Bowl with him you have to gasp make an argument over Ditka especially since Ditka had much more talent on his teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:14 pm 
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3 notches below this guy:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPpMz5TQ_UU

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:54 am 
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cubbiegirlshamus wrote:
You could make an argument for #3 behind Halas and Ditka.

And if the Bears win a Super Bowl with him you have to gasp make an argument over Ditka especially since Ditka had much more talent on his teams.


If you look at it closely, Lovie has had an awful lot of talent on his teams, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I think he is a good coach. I don't think he is a great coach.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:19 am 
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Lovie's teams never seem to be talented on both sides of the ball. I believe this is the year where the offense will be near the top of the league but the defense will be in the bottom half. The great Bears teams usually had both. Don't know enough about the Bears coaches to accurately rank them but he no worse than #2 since I've been alive and you could make the argument he's ahead of the underachieving Ditka.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:26 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
Lovie's teams never seem to be talented on both sides of the ball.
With the exception of maybe his first year as HC, Lovie has always had a good amount of talent on defense.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Makaveli wrote:
you could make the argument he's ahead of the underachieving Ditka.


please try to make that argument

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Lovie's teams never seem to be talented on both sides of the ball.
With the exception of maybe his first year as HC, Lovie has always had a good amount of talent on defense.

Best reciever of Lovie's Tenure: Wahsed up Musin Muhammed
Best LT: Converted RT John Tait
QB's who were depended on: Craig Krenzel, Chad Hutchinson, Rex Grossman, Brian Griese


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:38 pm 
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I know. That's why I said nothing about the offense. Lovie has had a lot of talent over the years on his defense.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:00 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Lovie's teams never seem to be talented on both sides of the ball.
With the exception of maybe his first year as HC, Lovie has always had a good amount of talent on defense.


Correct. I was saying both sides of the ball in the same season. The closest was 2006 and the Bears destroyed everyone until the league adjusted to Grossman. The defense has been great for a decade. It is my opinion that the offense and defense will now switch roles.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:10 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
you could make the argument he's ahead of the underachieving Ditka.


please try to make that argument


Lovie has never had an underachieving season. Even though Ditka's teams were by far superior to Lovie's teams he has the same amount of SB trips and 1 more NFC title game appearance. I know Ditka has a ring but he should have won more. He had some of the greatest teams in the history of the game. I believe you could have led the Bears to a SB victory in 1985.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:14 am 
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Lovie has had bad offenses because he didn't care. Ditka wasn't just blessed with talent. The offense was good because Ditka focused on the run and went about restructuring the offensive line into the best run-blocking line of the decade.

Lovie has no offensive philosophy. That's why he'll never be a great coach.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:16 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Lovie has had bad offenses because he didn't care. Ditka wasn't just blessed with talent. The offense was good because Ditka focused on the run and went about restructuring the offensive line into the best run-blocking line of the decade.

Lovie has no offensive philosophy. That's why he'll never be a great coach.


I agree. His offensive philosophy comes from the Rams but they've never had the talent or field to run that type of offense. He's a defensive coach. Ditka was an offensive coach.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:21 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
I agree.


:( Well, the rest of my day just opened up.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:34 am 
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Lovie cost the Bears a Superbowl..sticking with Wrecks way too long..and the division was rebuilding and Lovie got fat off bad teams..the Pack and Lions are rebuilt..I am no fan of Smith..he is an average coach.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:36 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Lovie has had bad offenses because he didn't care. Ditka wasn't just blessed with talent. The offense was good because Ditka focused on the run and went about restructuring the offensive line into the best run-blocking line of the decade.

Lovie has no offensive philosophy. That's why he'll never be a great coach.


I agree. His offensive philosophy comes from the Rams but they've never had the talent or field to run that type of offense. He's a defensive coach. Ditka was an offensive coach.

Even with the talent, you cant run that shit in today's NFL.

Gotta keep reinventing. That system is 15 years old


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:37 am 
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And the best Wideout was Lloyd they did not recognize it and released him.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:44 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:57 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Even with the talent, you cant run that shit in today's NFL.
You probably could for a season or 2 if you had 2 HOF'ers on the Oline, and 2 of the top WRs in football. Lovie did not.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:00 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
you could make the argument he's ahead of the underachieving Ditka.


please try to make that argument


Lovie has never had an underachieving season. Even though Ditka's teams were by far superior to Lovie's teams he has the same amount of SB trips and 1 more NFC title game appearance. I know Ditka has a ring but he should have won more. He had some of the greatest teams in the history of the game. I believe you could have led the Bears to a SB victory in 1985.


Was the talent great when Ditka took over the team? He did a fantastic job of resurrecting the franchise.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:02 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
I agree.


:( Well, the rest of my day just opened up.


:lol: I'm sorry


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:03 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Lovie has had bad offenses because he didn't care. Ditka wasn't just blessed with talent. The offense was good because Ditka focused on the run and went about restructuring the offensive line into the best run-blocking line of the decade.

Lovie has no offensive philosophy. That's why he'll never be a great coach.


I agree. His offensive philosophy comes from the Rams but they've never had the talent or field to run that type of offense. He's a defensive coach. Ditka was an offensive coach.

Even with the talent, you cant run that shit in today's NFL.

Gotta keep reinventing. That system is 15 years old


Agreed. They now have the talent but I don't see an offensive guru on the coaching staff.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:05 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
you could make the argument he's ahead of the underachieving Ditka.


please try to make that argument


Lovie has never had an underachieving season. Even though Ditka's teams were by far superior to Lovie's teams he has the same amount of SB trips and 1 more NFC title game appearance. I know Ditka has a ring but he should have won more. He had some of the greatest teams in the history of the game. I believe you could have led the Bears to a SB victory in 1985.


Was the talent great when Ditka took over the team? He did a fantastic job of resurrecting the franchise.


Many of the key pieces were already in place. Having those pieces made his job a little easier. Also having a defensive guru doesn't usually hurt either. Makes it easier for you to focus on 1 thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:08 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Even with the talent, you cant run that shit in today's NFL.
You probably could for a season or 2 if you had 2 HOF'ers on the Oline, and 2 of the top WRs in football. Lovie did not.


A HoF RB and a future HoF QB doesn't hurt either.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:12 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
Many of the key pieces were already in place. Having those pieces made his job a little easier. Also having a defensive guru doesn't usually hurt either. Makes it easier for you to focus on 1 thing.


Here's what Ditka took over. 3 players on offense and 4 players on defense that had an impact on the Super Bowl season.


Offensive Starters
QB Vince Evans
RB Walter Payton
FB Matt Suhey
WR Brian Baschnagel
WR Rickey Watts
TE Robin Earl
LT Ted Albrecht
LG Noah Jackson
C Dan Neal
RG Emanuel Zanders
RT Keith Van Horne

Defensive Starters
LDE Dan Hampton
LDT Jim Osborne
RDT Alan Page
RDE Al Harris
LLB Otis Wilson
MLB Mike Singletary
RLB Gary Campbell
LCB Terry Schmidt
RCB Reuben Henderson
SS Gary Fencik*+
FS Doug Plank

Special Teams Starters
K John Roveto
P Bob Parsons
PR Jeff Fisher
KR Dave Williams

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:15 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Makaveli wrote:

Was the talent great when Ditka took over the team? He did a fantastic job of resurrecting the franchise.


Many of the key pieces were already in place. Having those pieces made his job a little easier. Also having a defensive guru doesn't usually hurt either. Makes it easier for you to focus on 1 thing.


I still contend that Jim Finks & Buddy Ryan were far, far more integral to the Bears' success than anything Ditka did. By the time Finks left in '83-84 all of the pieces were in place.

Ditka had nothing to do with the defense. Not even from a motivational point of view.

Ditka's ideas on offense were 1) Let Walter run. 2) Force the run. 3) Gimmick pass and/or 4) 3rd down draw to Pinky. Much of the time McMahon seemed to call his own pass plays. Ditka was supremely comfortable with the notion of letting the (Finks) line block for Payton.... & especially for the Fridge.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:16 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Many of the key pieces were already in place. Having those pieces made his job a little easier. Also having a defensive guru doesn't usually hurt either. Makes it easier for you to focus on 1 thing.


Here's what Ditka took over. 3 players on offense and 4 players on defense that had an impact on the Super Bowl season.


Offensive Starters
QB Vince Evans
RB Walter Payton
FB Matt Suhey
WR Brian Baschnagel
WR Rickey Watts
TE Robin Earl
LT Ted Albrecht
LG Noah Jackson
C Dan Neal
RG Emanuel Zanders
RT Keith Van Horne

Defensive Starters
LDE Dan Hampton
LDT Jim Osborne
RDT Alan Page
RDE Al Harris
LLB Otis Wilson
MLB Mike Singletary
RLB Gary Campbell
LCB Terry Schmidt
RCB Reuben Henderson
SS Gary Fencik*+
FS Doug Plank

Special Teams Starters
K John Roveto
P Bob Parsons
PR Jeff Fisher
KR Dave Williams
So you agree that many of the key pieces were already in place?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:31 am 
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If you don't consider 80% of the offensive line, all the wide receivers, cornerbacks and tackles, and the quarterback key; then yes, many of the key players were there.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:34 am 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
If you don't consider 80% of the offensive line, all the wide receivers, cornerbacks and tackles, and the quarterback key; then yes, many of the key players were there.


The entire team can't be part of the core. Walter was great behind awful lines. It wasn't hard to imagine how much better he would be if you put some talent around him. IMO the greatest of the defense made it a little easier on the offense more than the greatest of the offense made it easier on the defense.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:57 am 
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The offensive line was part of the core. So was McMahon.

1985 key guys that were there - Hampton, Singletary, Wilson and you could make an argument for Payton and Van Horne.

I'd probably give you Payton.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:59 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Even with the talent, you cant run that shit in today's NFL.
You probably could for a season or 2 if you had 2 HOF'ers on the Oline, and 2 of the top WRs in football. Lovie did not.

Hall of Fame QB, two Hall of fame WR, a hall of fame LT, and a hall of fame RB and they STILL wouldnt be able to run that shit in the NFL, today imo.

Once stuff is caught up to....that's it.

That's why the Defense the Bears run looks so different than what Tampa did in 2002. They're just being stubborn calling it the Cover-2 or Bear-2 if you're nasty


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