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Wow. Ok. Lets start the insanity...



I kinda agree with Panther

This would make sense if the only isssue was money. But it's not.......so it doesn't....

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But the money is part of it.

I see the teachers side on some things, other things I think they're being ridiculous.

That fat fuck heading up the Union is definitely in this for more than her Union brothers and sisters....looks like Tubby McFatt is attempting to rise above her station.

Classrooms with 30+ kids, schools without air conditioning, teachers having to buy their own supplies due to poor funding. There are a lot of reasons for this. I'm not taking sides because I think it sucks when children are affected by contract disputes. It's just not as clear cut as blaming the teachers for this. Rahm & Co. have just as much (if not a bit more) blame here. Shit needs to change. You would hope that the adults could set a good example and work something out...

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Rahm yes, dont forget Daly and really the whole Illinois govt.


Im sure a lot of the issues are righteous. Unfortuantely, the ones that get the most press (raises and hours worked) are the ones that garner the least sympathy.


And I agree that they better just fuckin figure it out

I keep seeing this. What specifically is the Union negotiating for then? AC units and more schools?

Rahm is trying to change it.

Per Rahm the major sticking point is teachers being evaluated.

Per my sister a Union Rep,,,,same thing....

Fact is that Rahm never asked them for help in his election and now is not bowing to them when they are in talks.

Teacher unions are not used to this.

He gave them the money they wanted...after a ridiculous $$$ request of 15% raises for 2 years.

They have agreed on 4 years with 4% raises, so this is not a money issue.

It is a quality of job performance issue....

The better part of this is watching Obama say NOTHING about his home town/chief of staff and his beloved unions fighting.

I just love when Rahm does not bow to unions. Awesome!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

We're gonna need a bigger forklift...

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team Mully & Hanley
team Meatpants

The money is a red herring IMO. From the teacher's perspective, who cares about that when you can be fired for various and sundry reasons, some of which are totally out of your control. Of course, favoritism and other forms of abuse would never happen in Chicago....

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

How do you feel when he bows to his corporate overlords...because a guy does not raise the kind of money Emmanuel has raised without some implied promises...as we learned with Blago

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Do most schools have Air conditioning?

Im not being a smart ass. I dont think my daughters school does. Mine certainly didnt.

I had a discussion about this with another lawyer the other day. Lieutenants in Chicago make 125K. Now that is a high position but there are over 300 of them in CPD. We were talking about how different our lives would be if we spent two years in college, joined CPD at 20, moved up the ranks at least as high as seargent and were able to retire at 50 with a full pension and plenty of options for new work.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

And forget about retiring, getting the pension and then coming back to work for the PD as a "consultant."

That actually happens with teachers as well.

That sounds about right to me... What would you expect teachers to earn?

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team Meatpants

It's a health issue for a lot of teachers and students. I don't know about you but I would rather my child sit in a class with air conditioning on a 90+ degree June day than sit in a sauna.

As a teacher it's all this little stuff that grates on you constantly. Have to take a dump? Too bad, hold it until lunch time. All the stuff that "normal" people take for granted.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Exactly. I get really tired of the "I didn't have ____ when I was a kid, and I turned out alright" shit. Don't we want your children to have things better than we did?

My niece's class has 35 kids in it. No way that is an ideal situation...

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No, Id rather my kid sweat it out


Was asking a question.

I was in no way playing the "I turned out fine" card. I specifically labeled what I said A question


Man, some people here are really great mind readers

that's a big thing. You can't effectively "teach" a class with 40+ students. That's why my wife got out. She's getting paid less out here in the sticks but she's sane.

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Yeah I don't get that whole attitude either. A couple years back our school district asked the tax base for a very small increase in order to replace a kindergarten building that was basically falling apart. And I get people do not want any tax increases, but the ones who said things like, "that building was just fine for my kids" really pissed me off. Your kids attended there 30 years ago idiots.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Actually now I recall, we didn't have a staff toilet. You could use the kids one. Imagine taking a shit at school with no door on the stall and little kids looking at you.

'course that is probably not the case anymore given the abuse stuff, but you get the drift how teachers are treated.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

With 35 kids in a class there is no way every child is getting the attention he or she deserves. Hell it probably takes the teacher half the year to remember all of their names. Somehow they're still supposed to makes sure these kids (whose parents don't give a crap about them or their education) test at a certain level every year or they're likely going to lose their jobs or not get a raise. At that point you're forcing teachers to teach to a test. That means kids are going to miss out of very valuable information that they could actually use later in life.

Why not install the "Summer School the Film" plan


Really, what if it werent a minimum score but judged on improvement?

what do you mean by this?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Instead of "All students need to score ___"

Schools must show (reasonable amount) of score improvement.


If the avg score is 52 and goes to 68 they shouldnt be fired because its not 70

What is a reasonable amount? Who sets it? What about the concept of an incredibly smart junior class that sets the curve one direction and then an incredibly stupid soph and freshman class that makes you look bad? What about the fact that "differentiated learning" means the teacher must come up with up to 30 lesson plans for 30 students, times 4 to 5 classes? What about the fact that standardized testing leads to "teaching to the test" instead of teaching useful information?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

This is the part that I side with Rahm on. There needs to be pay based on performance of some kind. I'm not smart enough to have it all figured out, but I was taught by some teachers that were mailing it in and needed a fire lit under their asses.

Hopefully both sides can just give on a few things. Everything will be cool when nobody is pleased with the deal...

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couple of problems with this, which could be worked out somehow. What about the actual GOOD schools. What if your kids already average 84. It's pretty hard to do better than that.

Also, there is a fair amount of randomness involved. Some kid doesn't give a shit and scores a 10, that could be the difference between getting fired right there.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest