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 Post subject: Mac a Sox fan ??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:21 am 
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As a Sox fan I 'm pissed what has transpired this year but hearing Dan saying that it's over and has taken the stance that nothing will ever get better than the 2005 title run and who really cares that the Sox are in a free fall is not a true Sox fan . You pound your chest for two years and this year they suck and you run and hide and want to live the rest of your life looking back on 2005 White Sox . Dumbest thing I've ever heard and now he does not want to go to games and traffic is a problem and the new seats are to green and what ever other excuse he may find not to attend.

We don't want you Dan .. Get OFF our band wagon . You sound like a patchic Bear fan who wants to relive the 1985 team.

Define the word "FAN " FOR ME ...........

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Last edited by THE WIND SOCK on Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:25 am 
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This is one reason why Cubs fans seem to think they're better than Sox fans. Here is a Sox fan saying no more games (the Cubs-Sox Series being the exception) while the Cubs fans continue to pack Wrigs to the rafters and they're within 3 games of each other. So, are all these Sox fans fair weather as Cubs fans catagorize them? We shall see as the season continues.

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 Post subject: Re: Mac a Sox fan ??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:26 am 
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THE WIND SOCK wrote:
Define the word "FAN " FOR ME ...........


Any of various devices consisting essentially of a series of radiating vanes or blades attached to and revolving with a central hublike portion to produce a current of air: ceiling fan; wall fan.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:26 am 
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Wind Sock,
Barring a major turnaround, this season is over. They will be back sooner rather than later, especially if they make some good moves to get better in the future, but it's time to throw in the towel. I think they'll be right back in the hunt next year, but if the division continues to be as brutal as it is, it will always be tough.

As for the 2005 White Sox, it will go down as the greatest run of a White Sox team that we will ever see. The fact that it took like 90 years made it that much more special. I am sure the Red Sox fans would agree with that when they won it. Future titles will sill be awesome, but I will always look back on 2005 with a special feeling.

When the Cubs end up winning the world series after 150-200 years of not doing it, even though most of us won't be alive, it will have the same effect.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:28 am 
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Darkside,
If you don't get that many people go for the Wrigley field experience as they do for the Cubs then you are blinded by your Cubs g-string. I'm a White Sox fan and I enjoy going to Wrigley, if just for the fact that I can stumble to a bar afterward.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:34 am 
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quote="Boilermaker Rick"]Wind Sock,
Barring a major turnaround, this season is over. They will be back sooner rather than later, especially if they make some good moves to get better in the future, but it's time to throw in the towel. I think they'll be right back in the hunt next year, but if the division continues to be as brutal as it is, it will always be tough.


I know there done too Rick . But I will still support them and go out to some games and not tell people that it's ok that they are in a free fall because they won a title 2 years ago . WTF is that .

2005 was special but I want more and unlike 1985 Bears fans I don't want to spend the next 25 years saying "Remember that 2005 Sox team "..

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Darkside,
If you don't get that many people go for the Wrigley field experience as they do for the Cubs then you are blinded by your Cubs g-string. I'm a White Sox fan and I enjoy going to Wrigley, if just for the fact that I can stumble to a bar afterward.


OK. The "Wrigley Field Experience" may account for 5-10 thousand. What I'm getting at here is that Mac is actually personifying the perception Cubs fans have that these "Radical" fair-weather Sox fans will just fade away as they have a lousy season. That they came out of nowhere halfway thru a phenominal season to cheer on an obvious WS quality team, and now that they're average again these fans are fading fast.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:40 am 
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Agreed. I'll still be going to a few games which is about my normal amount for a season. I think the only way that we look at them like that is if the White Sox suck for the next 25 years.

I think the White Sox will end up like the Bulls. People will always put the Bulls of the 90's on a pedestal and have fond memories, but the 90's don't make it ok that they sucked for a while and even now, they didn't do that well in the playoffs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:44 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
People will always put the Bulls of the 90's on a pedestal and have fond memories,.


IMHO, they should. Those 6 championship teams were probably the best teams the NBA ever saw. 'Specially 95-96. It was goddam Special seeing those teams play. They're put on a pedestal cause they earned that spot. I know, "Glory Days" but still that was just AWESOME watching Jordan play probably the most entertaining basketball there's been before and since.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:45 am 
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I know Dan is upset and he's just venting but I was shocked that no one picked up the phone to get on him about jumping ship.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:45 am 
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The season IS over. The only hope for next year is that KW acknowldges this and attempts to get top prospects for our free agents.

Since Everett is hurt I would call the Astros today and see what I could get for Uribe. At this point I do not care that Cintron will start at short, I want something for the guy whose numbers have gone down in every one of the last 4 years.

I would also push Buhrle to sign a contract. If he will not, he must be moved, as I do not want to play with the chance that he will not resign this offseason.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:47 am 
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THE WIND SOCK wrote:
I know Dan is upset and he's just venting but I was shocked that no one picked up the phone to get on him about jumping ship.


They did.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:53 am 
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According to Bill Simmons-
This is a true fan....


Without further ado ...

Attire
1. You can't purchase a "blank" authentic jersey from your favorite team with no name on the back, then stick your own name and number on the jersey ... well, unless you want to be an enormous dork.

2. If you're attending an NBA game, don't wear the jersey of a team that isn't competing in the game. It's bad enough to see people wearing authentic NBA jerseys in public -- if they're wearing a T-shirt underneath it, they look ridiculous, and if they aren't wearing a T-shirt, usually there's flab and shoulder hair everywhere, and you're wishing that they were wearing a T-shirt. Besides, it's not like you need to wear an NBA jersey to get yourself in the mood for an NBA game, unlike baseball, football and hockey.

3. Don't wear cheap-looking replica jerseys or flimsy-looking bargain-basement hats. Come on. You're representing every fan from your team. Show some pride.

4. Don't wear replica championship rings as a conversation starter. Don't carry someone's baseball card in your wallet as a conversation starter.

5. It's OK to flagrantly show your contempt for the home team by wearing the colors of a hated rival, as long as you're not being obnoxious as you root for the visiting team. If you make a spectacle of yourself, all bets are off and you'll get what you deserve. Back in the late-'80s, I sat in the upper deck at Yankee Stadium -- during a Red Sox-Yanks game, no less -- wearing a Sox hat, Bruins jersey and Celtics shorts, and the Yankees fans left me alone. Why? Because I wasn't going overboard. There's a lesson here, and it's not just that I had a death wish back in the late-'80s.

6. When your team wins a championship, it's your civic duty to purchase as much paraphernalia as possible. Don't be ashamed. Hats, T-shirts, sweatshirts, videos, cards, magazines, books ... there's no limit. Gorge yourself.

Behavior
7. Be very careful when using the word "We" with your favorite team. Use it judiciously. Just remember, you don't wear a uniform, you don't play any minutes, and you're not on the team. And yes, this was an extremely tough line for me to straddle during the Patriots' Super Bowl run.

8. No hopping on and off the bandwagon during the season with the flip-flop, "I knew we were going to self-destruct! ... All right, we won six straight! ... I knew we wouldn't keep playing this well. ... I knew we would bounce back!" routine as the season drags along. Just for the record, this is probably my biggest fault as a sports fan -- I overreact to everything. I've already written off the Celtics three different times this season, and I've given up on Antoine Walker roughly 435 times over the past six years. Can I get some medication for this?

CHAT WITH SPORTS GUY
If you want to discuss the rules of fan conduct or anything else with Page 2 columnist Bill Simmons, you'll get your chance when The Sports Guy joins us for a live chat at 3 p.m. ET Thursday. Click here to send in a question to Simmons.

9. It's OK to root against your team, if they're hopelessly out of the playoff race and you want them to keep losing so A) they'll get a better draft pick, or B) you're hoping the coach and/or GM will get fired. Don't feel bad about it.

(Note: It's also OK to wager against your team, if they're hopelessly out of the playoff race. But only then. And only if you don't make it a habit.)

10. If one of your fantasy guys is lighting it up against your favorite team (scoring goals, rushing for big yards, making jumpers, etc.), you can't pump your fist, high-five anyone or refer to the player in a "That's one of my guys!" sense, especially if it's a crucial game or a crucial juncture of the game.

(That's maybe the No. 1 problem for sports fans these days: When to draw the line between fantasy and real life. It's an ongoing battle. Even if you can't help getting secretly excited about your fantasy guys when they're thriving against your favorite team, at least make sure you feel guilty, too. Don't you hate that enthralled/guilty feeling? Is there anything worse? I'm babbling ...)



AP
You can forgive Knicks fan for booing their brutal team this season.11. Don't boo your team unless it's absolutely warranted -- like with the brutal Knicks situation this season, or if you're hoping to get a coach fired or a specific player traded or something. When you think about it, what's the purpose of booing your team? If you're trying to inspire them, usually you end up sending them into a deeper funk -- odds are, your team already knows it's struggling. And if you're trying to light a fire under a specific player, usually you end up making him even more nervous and tentative. So why boo in the first place? Trust me, dead silence sends a bigger message than anything. And it's not potentially destructive.


(There's only one circumstance where booing doesn't cause more harm than good: If you have a great team that seems to be going through the motions. For instance, the Lakers have a tendency to sleepwalk against inferior teams at home; As soon as the fans get a little restless, Shaq and company seem to wake up. Unfortunately for the Lakers, their fans aren't paying attention that closely because they're busy either trying to get on the Jumbotron, averting their eyes from Dyan Cannon, or trying to figure out things like "How many points do you get if you shoot one from half court?" or "How come that clock on the backboard keeps counting down backward from 24?")

12. After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions. For instance, the Pats could finish 0-80 over the next five years and I wouldn't say a peep. That's just the way it is. You win the Super Bowl, you go on cruise control for five years. Everything else is gravy.

13. You can follow specific players from other teams, but only as long as they aren't facing your team. For instance, it's fine to enjoy the Brett Favre Experience if you're a Jaguars fan ... just don't get carried away and start making a scrapbook, collecting all his football cards and so on. That's a little sketchy. And you can't purchase his jersey under any circumstances.


Patriots fans aren't allowed to complain about their team for at least five years.14. Just because you supported a team that won a championship, it doesn't give you the right to turn into a pompous, insufferable schmuck. Remember this.


Friendships and relationships
15. If your team defeats a good friend's team in a crucial game or series, don't rub it in with them unless they've been especially annoying/gloating/condescending/confrontational in the days leading up to the big battle. You're probably better off cutting off all communications in the days preceding/following the game, just to be safe.

15a. Along those same lines, if your team squanders a crucial game/series to your buddy's team, don't make them feel guilty about it -- don't call them to bitch about the game, don't blame some conspiracy or bad referee's call, don't rant and rave like a lunatic. In the words of Vito Corleone, you can act like a man. You have plenty of time to bitch in private.

15b. If your buddy's team loses an especially tough game, don't call him -- wait for him to call you. And when you do speak to him, discuss the game in a tone normally reserved for sudden, unexpected deaths.

15c. If one of your best friends loves a certain team that has a chance to win a championship, and your team is out of the picture, it's OK to jump on the bandwagon and root for his team to win it all. That's acceptable. Like Temporary Fan status.

16. If you marry someone who roots for a different team than you, you can't be bullied into switching allegiances. You'd be amazed how often this happens ... and how often it's the guy who folds. The power of women to whip men never ceases to amaze me. The funniest part is when the guy starts making excuses: "Well, once I moved to Boston from New York, I got caught up in this whole Red Sox thing and the American League, so I stopped following the Mets," or "I never liked the Browns as much as she liked the Bengals, so I'm taking one for the team," or even my personal favorite, "We wanted our kids to root for the same team as their parents."

(Don't you love when "The sake of the kids" becomes a reason? What is this, like a Jewish-Catholic thing?)


Sports traitor Janet Jones should now spend all her time north of the border.17. If you're an American woman and visible former actress, and you marry the most famous Canadian hockey star of all-time, and eventually he becomes the man in charge of putting together a Canadian Olympic hockey team, and they end up playing the Americans for the gold medal in a game that's taking place in a U.S. city, and you show up for that game cheering for the Canadians, and you're hugging everyone in sight as the Canadians are putting the game away in the third period ... well, you have to leave the country immediately. And you can't come back. Ever.


(Yes, I'm talking to you, Janet Jones. Nobody likes a Sports Traitor. Turn in your driver's license, turn in your passport and take a hike. If you like Canada so much, move there. How come nobody is making a big deal out of this? TRAITOR! TRAITOR!)

And the biggies ...

Loyalties
18. If you live in a city that has fielded a professional team since your formative years, you have to root for that team. None of this, "The Bengals weren't very good when I was growing up in Cincy, so I became a Cowboys fan" crap.

Also, you can't start rooting for a team, back off when they're in a down cycle, then renew the relationship once the team starts winning again. All those Cowboys fans who jumped off the bandwagon in the late-'80s, jumped back on during the Emmitt/Aikman Era, then jumped back off in the late-'90s ... you know who you are. You shouldn't even be allowed out in public.



Allsport
You are required to root for the home team under almost all circumstances.(There's nothing worse than a Bandwagon Jumper. If sports were a prison and sports fans made up all the prisoners, the Bandwagon Jumpers would be like the child molesters -- everyone else would pick on them, take turns beating them up and force them to toss more salads than Emeril Lagasse.)


19. Once you choose a team, you're stuck with that team for the rest of your life ... unless one of the following conditions applies:

Your team moves to another city. All bets are off when that happens. In fact, if you decided to turn off that sport entirely, nobody would blame you.

You grew up in a city that didn't field a team for a specific sport -- so you picked a random team -- and then either a.) your city landed a team, or b.) you moved to a city that fielded a team for that specific sport. For instance, one of my Connecticut buddies rooted for the Sixers during the Doctor J Era, then happened to be living in Orlando when the Magic came to town. Now he's a Magic fan. That's acceptable.

One of your immediate family members either plays professionally or takes a relevant management/coaching/front office position with a pro team.

You follow your favorite college star (and this has to be a once-in-a-generation favorite college star) to the pros and root for his team du jour ... like if you were a UNC fan for the past 20 years, and you rooted for the Bulls (because of MJ) and then the Raptors (because of Vince). Only works if there isn't a pro team in your area.

The owner of your favorite team treated his fans so egregiously over the years that you couldn't take it anymore -- you would rather not follow them at all then support a franchise with this owner in charge. Just for the record, I reached this point with the Boston Bruins about six years ago. When it happens, you have two options: You can either renounce that team and pick someone else, or you can pretend they're dead, like you're a grieving widow. That's what I do. I'm an NHL widow. I don't even want to date another team.

If you're between the ages of 20-40, you're a fan of the Yankees, Cowboys, Braves, Raiders, Steelers, Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Canadiens and/or Oilers, and you're not actually from those one of those cities ... well, you better have a reason that goes beyond "When I was picking a favorite team as a kid, they were the best team, so I picked them."


If you live in New York, you can't root for both the Yankees and Mets. Pick a side!At least give me a reason like "Reggie Jackson was my favorite player growing up," or "I always liked the red Bulls uniforms," or even "Everyone in my gang wore Raiders colors." Do you really want to be known as a bona fide Bandwagon Jumper?


20. If you hail from New York, you can't root for the Yankees and the Mets. You have to choose between them. Repeat: You have to choose between them. Don't give me this "As long as one of them is doing well, at least New York is winning" spiels. What is this, the sports fan's version of bisexuality? How about making a choice? Any New Yorker who said the words "It's the Yankees versus the Mets ... I can't lose!" during the 2000 World Series deserves to be tortured with a cattle prod.

Besides, as we mentioned in the beginning of this column, you shouldn't practice "Sports Bigamy" in general. Sports teams are just like wives ... you can only have one wife, you can only have one sports team, and for the love of God, I will not argue about this.

(And yes, I'm talking to you, KJ.)

Bill Simmons writes three columns a week for Page 2.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:33 am 
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Mac is a quisling in the first place.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:39 am 
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um...im a diehard sox fan as well. im basically 99% resigned to the fact that they wont win more than 80 games this year. sure, there's lots of games left that its possible to turn it around, but they'd have to win about 19 of the 23 games they have left before the all star break to really convince anyone that they were "back"

kenny williams has royally screwed this team, and as bad as some of the [zimmer] players [/zimmer] have been this year, i think the first step to rebuidling the sox into a bonafide AL powerhouse is to get rid of kenny

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:46 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
um...im a diehard sox fan as well. im basically 99% resigned to the fact that they wont win more than 80 games this year. sure, there's lots of games left that its possible to turn it around, but they'd have to win about 19 of the 23 games they have left before the all star break to really convince anyone that they were "back"

kenny williams has royally screwed this team, and as bad as some of the [zimmer] players [/zimmer] have been this year, i think the first step to rebuidling the sox into a bonafide AL powerhouse is to get rid of kenny


What does Kenny Williams have to do with the fact that they went from one of the top offenses to one of the worst in 1 or 2 seasons? No one predicted that everyone would be hitting .230 and if you did, then maybe you should be the next GM.

Kenny Williams in the offseason got rid of Garcia and McCarthy. Both those moves look to be great. If you want to get rid of Kenny, I would like to know specifically why.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:49 am 
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I don't see Kenny Williams as the main problem. He tried to ride this lineup one season too long, but no one...NO ONE saw this coming. You can criticize him for not doing enough to strengthen the bullpen, but you can't crucify him for not seeing the spontaneous ageing of two thirds of his lineup into AAA members. I don't agree with that.

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Mac is a FAN and a talk show host. It may be a tough balance for hard core fans, but I think he does it pretty well. As a fellow FAN you may want him to be totally blind to reality and say his team is not out of it until they are mathematically eliminated. That may be part of your definition of a FAN. I don't agree with that definition. It doesn't seem that Mac has that same constraining definition as you either.

Second, as a TALK SHOW HOST, he would lose credibility and listeners if he took your definition Seems to me he has walked that tightrope pretty well...not hiding the fact he is a fan but also accepting the dose of reality the Sox have dished. Frank and GD seem to have captured that as well. Since when is the definition of a FAN someone who can't be realistic about his team's potential in a particular season? Are you now prepared to say Frank and GD aren't true fans either? I wouldn't.

Also, I wouldn't call what Mac did "jumping ship". He hasn't become a fan of another team. He will still likely go to Sox games, watch games and root for his team. He just understands they won't win it all this year. That doesn't make him any less of a FAN in my book.


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[quote"Coast2Coast"]Frank and GD seem to have captured that as well. Since when is the definition of a FAN someone who can't be realistic about his team's potential in a particular season? Are you now prepared to say Frank and GD aren't true fans either? [/quote]

exactly. we're all bears fans here (piss off woodridge :P), and through the wannstedt years, we knew they would suck, yet still were fans

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Sox fans aren't happy merely winning. They want their team to win the World Series. There is no way in God's green earth that this team is going to win the World Series let alone make it to the playoffs.

There's a difference between a realistic fan and a blind lemming.

That being said, 42 more days til bears camp.


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quote="Coast2Coast"]Mac is a FAN and a talk show host. It may be a tough balance for hard core fans, but I think he does it pretty well. As a fellow FAN you may want him to be totally blind to reality and say his team is not out of it until they are mathematically eliminated. That may be part of your definition of a FAN. I don't agree with that definition. It doesn't seem that Mac has that same constraining definition as you either.


Your missing my point Coast . As a fan of the White Sox (being Dan ) he say it's ok that he does not care about the Sox slide because it will never get any better than 2005. Why even be a fan if 2005 was as good as it gets for him ? Being a host or not there is nothing to look forward to in Mac's eyes so why bother even rooting or going again if you have the mind set ?

I 've been spolied and expect the Sox to compete like the Twins do every year. This is Chicago and we should have very high expectations for the White Sox and I'm telling you that if the Bears don't win the Superbowl this year it's a disappointment .

I 'm holding the Sox to high standards and I would expect nothing less from Mac in his support of this this club .

It's like Mac saying ' We won two books in the ratings so I'm taking it easy and really don't care if we win another ratings period again . I don't buy it nor do I support that thinking from a so called Sox fan .

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:59 pm 
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[quote="THE WIND SOCK"][[quote]quote="Coast2Coast"]I'm telling you that if the Bears don't win the Superbowl this year it's a disappointment .
quote]

Wind Sock, prepare for disappointment. Bears probably go 9-7 with a very lucky season.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:01 pm 
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This makes me think of the old saying: The difference between Cub fans and Sox fans is that Sox fans KNOW their team sucks!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:16 pm 
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Sox fan here. I'm resigned to the fact that the season is probably over, but frankly that's been the deal most years.

But declaring a team dead in mid-June? Always makes me think of this gem from one of the Houston papers (note the year on the tombstone):

http://forloveoftheastros.mlblogs.com/m ... nepage.jpg


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:17 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
This makes me think of the old saying: The difference between Cub fans and Sox fans is that Sox fans KNOW their team sucks!!
But the touble is that they don't shut up about it. To be a Sox fan, you have to be a whiner.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:34 pm 
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"To be a Sox fan, you have to be a whiner."

Define "whiner" please. I think Cub fans and Sox fans are equally annoying....we are all Bears fans in the end.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
This is one reason why Cubs fans seem to think they're better than Sox fans. Here is a Sox fan saying no more games (the Cubs-Sox Series being the exception) while the Cubs fans continue to pack Wrigs to the rafters and they're within 3 games of each other. So, are all these Sox fans fair weather as Cubs fans catagorize them? We shall see as the season continues.


And your description of the crowds at Wrigley also serves as an explanation of why Sox fans think they're better than Cubs fans: They won't pack the house for losers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:48 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
"To be a Sox fan, you have to be a whiner."

Define "whiner" please. I think Cub fans and Sox fans are equally annoying....we are all Bears fans in the end.
Because they never seem to be happy with anything no matter how good (or bad) things are.

Examples:

- "We hate the Cubs"
- "The Cubs fans don't know baseball"
- "The 94 strike ruined our team that year"
- "The White Flag Trade"
- "The upper deck is too high"

I know that it's too late to say that "it's early" this year, but you should support your team, win or lose. You guys won a World Series two years ago. I'd still find a way to be happy about that (even though it was two years ago). Be grateful for what you have.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:58 pm 
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"Because they never seem to be happy with anything no matter how good (or bad) things are. "

That's a very negative attitude you have. But keep it up if that's what works for ya.

I'm gonna go to Sox game Monday and I'm gonna enjoy no lines for beer, food, bathroom....beer....
I can't wait!!. I love when my team sucks!!!

Thanks Kenny, Ozzie, thank you all


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Glendale Heights Joe,
Sorry we don't have a goat, Dusty Baker and a dude in the stands to blame for almost 100 years of futility.

By the way, the 94 strike did ruin a legitimate shot for the White Sox, but after 2005, most Sox fans could care less now. The White flag trade sucked too. The upper deck used to suck at US Cellular, but it is better now.

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