While I have no problem with a birth certificate not being required...why would it be an issue if it were required? I'm not getting the problem. I fully believe Obama was born here...I don't really care if he wasn't. But going forward...since the law says you have to be born here...why not have to show it?

I have to prove I'm 21 (almost) every time I get a drink, because it is the law.

You started the insulting not me.
Third grader right go back to posting funny pictures you found on the web. I got nothing against you ,sorry if my point was not clear enough for you.
Once again let me state by him not producing the document when he has had ample opportunities to do so just puts more doubt about his honesty and credentials in peoples mind. The birth cert is not that huge an issue to me as much as the holding back on the school records.

Chas, you claim to not be a birther, but your first sentence started exactly like this: I am not saying The pres is from Kenya or Indonesia BUT. You said that we don't know anything about his past, and he seems to be hiding a lot. Then you said that it is really about his school records not the birth certificate, even though being a natural born citizen of the United States is a pre-requisite to be president, and good grades, or schooling of any kind, is not. That just doesn't make sense. You seem to have a thought on the birth certificate issue, whenever the topic comes up here, so it's clearly a hot button issue for you.

How exactly did I start with the insults? What funny pictures did I post? In my post, to which you have taken offense, the only thing that I said about you was, you are a birther, which you are, based on your thoughts earlier. That wasn't me taking a personal shot at you, it was me questioning your position on an issue? Is that off limits? Then you attacked my reading comprehension, which is basically attacking my intelligence. I'm not gonna take that from anybody, especially someone who claims to have a disability when his intelligence is questioned.

In the same vein then, David Chuster, what is personally at stake for you such that you must take up the reins to combat, or, at the very least label/identify, alleged "Birthers" here with such vigor?

Does BHO sign your checks? If that is the case, I fully understand.

True it started like that but did not end that is why I asked you to read and take in the entire statement. I think the Pres likes this shit out there because it keeps most people from getting to the serious issues like his college days and what he did there. How he has never had a non government sponsored job. How he has never served a full term in any office he held. How his attendance and voting records are a joke.Now we got gas going to the $5 a gallon mark and he is refusing to release the reserves. Putting all the blame on the speculators. Yet they will not admit that the ban on drilling he imposed is partially to blame as well as his failed eco policies. I try not to get worked up because if he gets elected to a second term then there should be an uproar about voter fraud like non other. Also, sorry I took offense where there was non so I apologize.

I saw you fire the first salvo in this thread at least. Your initial thrust, while tame, still included that word, one which most here know to carry a negative connotation and which casts ad hominem aspersions at those at whom it is directed.

He questions everything about his past, including school records. He also said, and I quote, "why not just present the thing and be done with it"? We call those people birthers. I didn't make it up. If you have a better, or more acceptable term, lay it on me. How is that firing the first salvo? That is quite an exaggeration.

Regarding the "cert" , his supporters put forth what is purported to be an official certificate of birth, but many sources outside of his camp will confirm that it is indeed simply a short form of the true actual birth certificate and can be had even if you were not naturally born in the state.

If there was an ounce of doubt, why didn't Karl Rove jump all over this then? Nobody plays that game better than him. That guy is a bulldog. If there was a shred of evidence, he would not have slept until he could prove it.

If there are questions, then there are questions. You still used the term. Just because the term is used and accepted by the mainstream media, whose views are not without agenda or outside corporate direction, it isn't any less harmful or stigmatizing than any other pigeon-holing label you could give a person or group.

As for Rove? Who knows what his motivations are and whom is actually pulling his strings, but I will guarantee that he answers to someone or some group, and the identity of such gatekeeper(s) may not be the obvious answer. I don't see it as Dem vs. Repubs. I see it more as The Duped American People vs. These Assholes That Want To Fuck Us And Take Everything For Themselves At Our Expense And Without Our Overt Permission (one can look at the actions of BOTH parties and their leaders throughout recent years and see enough congruity to lump the two parties together as it pertains to this matchup). OK, now I am guilty of stigmatizing the latter group - whoops! I am not sorry, however, and I don't pretend to know Rove's motivations and I do not see his lack of action - and partisan bickering in general - as persuasive in this or any other matter - it is just a distraction from the subject at hand.

That is all there are - distractions from what is actually to be scrutinized: the docs. Throw 'em down for forensic analysis. Nothing else - actions, reactions, really matters.

If they did, by such logic the BHO side's unwillingness to initially and subsequently produce the proper formats for many of the requested items should be used as evidence against his credibility and natural born citizenship status.

Why is this still an issue, two and a half years later?

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

There's still people who think the moon landing was faked.
That the CIA killed Kennedy.
That the OWN channel was a good idea.

They're just silly things to believe in.

Our hotel smelled like dead hooker vagina (before you ask I had gotten a detailed description from beardown)

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Good thing you are here to let everyone know when they do something either way.

Thanks, Viscount!

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Probably because I don't like you, but see :24 for my actual answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct-ZZvdAKzQ

Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.

Look into it a little further. Snopes? Snopes and Wikipedia do not a well-researched paper make. Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not. It is not an Official Certificate of Birth.

It's not about the facts, it's about embarrassing "birthers" into submission and keeping others from looking too far down the rabbit hole by creating a negative stigma upon those who question official claims. See "Truthers" as well.

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

I agree with 2 of those 3 things

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

You think the OWN channel was a good idea

Our hotel smelled like dead hooker vagina (before you ask I had gotten a detailed description from beardown)

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

I assumed the Oprah Winfrey Network, but that was just my guess.

Our hotel smelled like dead hooker vagina (before you ask I had gotten a detailed description from beardown)

That seems like an awful idea...who the fuck would want to watch her all day?!?

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

actcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html)? I'm not trying to be confrontational but am simply curious.

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

I explained this already. They did not provide what was requested.

For example: If I ask you for your driver's license, and you indeed HAVE a driver's license, yet you provide me with a Xerox copy of your State ID, you have not produced the proper documentation.

Also, what about the transcripts, student loan/fellowship, and other undisclosed info?

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

whistler

Our hotel smelled like dead hooker vagina (before you ask I had gotten a detailed description from beardown)

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

I never made the outright claim you stated in your first question, so please let's just stick to the print and let's not put words in each others' mouths.

Also, we do not get to the level of validation of the document he propounded because IT IS NOT THE REQUESTED DOCUMENT.

Here is a detailed address of the factcheck and snopes claims, though: http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2008/12/ ... aught.html

Put forth that which was requested, plus all supplementary educational and background information, and allow for proper forensic analysis of such items, and then we can move on after it passes such scrutiny.

Rules are rules, plus enough people dearly care about unequivocal truth regarding this matter, and this man, like it or not, represents the will of said people: so GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, MR. O!

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

1. No, I meant exactly what I wrote (see emphasis for clarification):

Like Global Warming, the mainstream media in general - whose powers and privileges, when you get down to brass tacks, are held by a select few powerbroker individuals and corporations - wants gang-up to pony up that doc they provided as something it is not.

I spoke of the media holding up the propounded doc copies and declaring a premature end to the debate.

Your statement alleges that I claimed a "forging" - not true.

2. You are oversimplifying the cite I offered. It did answer your original question, though. I think a re-read will show that the explanations offered therein stand up to your scrutiny on their own, so I need not appropriate their work as mine own. Yet, if you have more pertinent follow-up questions I can research them for you and attempt to satisfy your wonderfully-voracious appetite for truth!

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

Wow. TM dominating in this thread.

You cannot stop Tall Midget, you can only hope to contain him.