Frank the only fact you brought up was Grossman threw for more interceptions in 3 shortened seasons that touchdowns. Everything about Cutler you've made excuse after excuse about. Why is it that a guy that has top 5 talent continues to fall short? He's done it his entire career. When can we point the finger at Cutler?

81 QB rating
More turnovers than touchdowns
Only 4 games passing for more than 300 yards in the last 44 games
Only 4 out of the last 10 games with more than 188 yards passing
1 season with more touchdowns than turnovers
Has never been the primary reason the Bears won a game
Has been the primary reason they've lost nearly 10
Hasn't produced at the level of Kyle Orton
Has a better offensive supporting cast than Orton
Orton played better his first year in Denver with the same talent than Cutler did during his time there.

He's as responsible for that record as Orton was in his first year. The fact that you can't count on Cutler makes him less valuable IMO. He has elite talent but plays well below it weekly.

Nas I don't know why you are even bring Orton into the discussion. Brandon Marshall (barring injury) is going to end up with more receiving yards than Orton had passing yards in 2005. Orton's career rating with the Bears is 79.7, Cutler's is 84....

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This morning I heard the Bears were ranked dead last in passing this season.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not Cutler's fault. They'd be ranked dead last in passing minus 5 if he werent the qb.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

So the team ahead of the Packers in the standings is dead last in offense in the NFL.

Laugh out loud!

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Which clearly indicates that either Cutler or Marshall are the MVB.

Yep, sure are. Just highlights the Bears strengths, and QB play isn't one of them.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Orton was a rookie then. Orton was the guy Cutler replaced. The rest of his time here he won games with inferior talent. In his first season with the Broncos he put up better numbers than Cutler has his entire career. His rating as a starter after that is over 80 and it was 87 in his first 2 years in Denver. The point is Cutler is Jeff George. He has all the talent in the world but rarely plays to it. As a fan that expected more I am disappointed. I didn't necessarily expect to get full value in return but I did expect for him to be night and day better than Orton and that hasn't been the case. At this point I would just be happy if he played like Orton did in Denver.

Exactly! Frank and the other members of Cutler's Fan Club don't see it that way.

Excuse. Just like you made an excuse for Cambell for the SF game. If he is the NFL QB you say he is, he should have been good to go with a week's worth of practice for that game. Orton's Oline was better. Des Clark is better than any TE Cutler has had. Thomas Jones is probably about the same as Forte. Forte has been worse this year than Jones was in '05-'07. The WRs for Cutler are better no doubt. False. Pretty sure Orton didn't throw 75 TD in one season.

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I can do the same thing.

Cutler's rating is only 82.4 as a Bear
Olsen was a better receiving TE than Clark and Cutler had Dez Clark too
Thomas Jones never accounted for more of the Bears offense than Forte
Orton has more yards and fewer interceptions/turnovers and only 5 fewer touchdowns in his time in Denver than Cutler had
Orton has a better winning percentage as a starter than Cutler

There seems to be a fairly sizeable contingent of Bears fans who will forever be Cutler apologists. His sample size is large enough to know what he is by now. It's embarrassing to use a word like potential for a guy who is almost 30.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I am not worried about Jay Cutler.

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Does he play to his talent regularly? Is he the player we all thought he would be? Do you have confidence in what you're going to get from him every week? Has he played to the level you expected him to play for this season. Did the Bears get good value in their trade?

IMO a lot of Bears fans are looking at the backups as proof that Cutler is better than what he really is. When Orton and Grossman was here there wasn't a huge drop off with either QB.

There was a time where I argued we had the best QB in the division and a time where I said wait until Cutler gets a true #1 and see how the offense takes off.

There seems to be a fairly sizeable contingent of Bears fans who will forever be Cutler apologists. His sample size is large enough to know what he is by now. It's embarrassing to use a word like potential for a guy who is almost 30.[/quote]

There also seems to be contigent of posters who do not seem to realize that the problems on this offense go beyond the QB. Lack of pass protection, lack of a solid second WR (who here believes that Hester is a starting WR in the league?) lack of a pass catching TE. Where is all this talent I keep hearing on offense?

Get rid of Cutler, fine. Who would improve this offense with the these pieces in place?

If only Cutler had a great number 2 receiver, a top 3 tight end, Pro Bowlers strewn up and down the O line and a superstar rb Im sure he'd be a top 5 qb in this league.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Do you think he even has an average number 2 receiver, average tight end or and average o-line?

They backed up eachother most of the time.

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It's amazing that Jay Cutler is basically having an equivalent season to Christian Ponder.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They were pretty even. That's why you had both sides believing their player was better. Cutler's had developmental guys or guys that shouldn't be in the league behind him until this season. Obviously Hanie should enough promise in the NFC Championship game to get #2 spot. This is the first year they've had a starter type backup. It would have been nice to get Orton but it would have been a distraction.

BREAKING NEWS:

Jay Cutler would be a better QB on a better team.

We now return you to a very special episode of Maury already in progress.

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CSFMB: Home of the small minded

You have just described the Houston Texans, the New England Patriots, the San Francisco 49ers, the Green Bay Packers, the Atlanta Falcons, and the New Orleans Saints.

Yes, it is possible to assemble great talent on the offensive side of the ball, and, yes, QB's tend to perform at a much higher level when they have it. And the Bears have very little of it.

(* I know there's a few exceptions that can be mentioned among the teams I listed - notably the Packers offensive line, which would be a fitting exception to bring up, given Aaron Rogers' Cutleresqe performance last night)

@ you thinking the Packers fit that description. With Bulaga hurt their line resembles the Bears, they have the worst running situation in the NFL, and they don't have anything close to resembling a top 5 TE. I'm not even positive how great Jordy Nelson and James Jones are because they've only ever played with one of the best QBs in the league.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Speaking of TE, what in the hell happened to Finley? Wasn't he supposed to be a guy that could be a top 5 TE?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Nas, is that hurt and disappointment talking?

Yeah but he's regressed. I have no idea why. I have no idea what his or other TE stats are but I'd hesitate to suggest he's even a top 10-12 TE right now.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

How does the Bears offense stack up to Tennessee, Seattle, and Oakland?

That's the problem here. The teams you describe likely have more weapons than Cutler(not sure about the 49ers), but the Bears are far behind those 3 bad teams too.

Also, keep in mind, at least with the Saints and the 49ers, that those offenses were pretty bad prior to the emergence of the QB's. Carolina, Washington, and to a lesser degree Miami and Tennessee have also seen offensive improvement. It's very possible that the Bears offense this year will be worse than some of the Grossman/Orton years.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's acceptance. I've made a shit load of excuses for his play. I've adjusted my expectations from top 5 QB to top 10 and now I just accept him for what he is. He's an average QB with elite tools. Hopefully that will be enough to win a SB with this defense. This is probably the end of the SB window with this defense too.