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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:22 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
Most people probably didn't want alcohol to be outlawed and understood that outlawing it wouldn't stop people from becoming alcoholics and that it would create another market for organized crime if it were. Those same people most likely were not in denial that alcohol made it easier for someone to become an alcoholic.

Most people probably understood that fighting a war on drugs was going to be nearly impossible. They new that gangs and organized crime was going to make that a tough war to win. They also knew that illegal drugs made it easier for anyone to become drug addicts.

Same thing applies to guns. Most people understand that it's impossible to get rid of all guns and wouldn't advocate getting rid of all of them. Most reasonable people believe buying a gun should be a lot harder than buy a pack of cigarettes and that guns make it easier for people to commit acts of violence. We all know most people will choose the easiest route. IMO the NRA is worse than any union in this country but they're bulletproof.


Bravo. :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:37 am 
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Makaveli wrote:
Most reasonable people believe buying a gun should be a lot harder than buy a pack of cigarettes.


That's because it is...unless Mobil starting selling 9mm's and I'm not aware of it.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:40 am 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
Most reasonable people believe buying a gun should be a lot harder than buy a pack of cigarettes.


That's because it is...unless Mobil starting selling 9mm's and I'm not aware of it.


No background checks at a gun show. The majority of gun legal gun sales don't happen in a store.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:56 am 
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Toothless aggression



maybe 3 people will get this joke but they are really the ones I care about the most.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Makaveli wrote:
No background checks at a gun show. The majority of gun legal gun sales don't happen in a store.


Yeah, but you can't buy a gun without a FOID card...which means you've had a background check.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:07 pm 
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doug - evergreen park wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
No background checks at a gun show. The majority of gun legal gun sales don't happen in a store.


Yeah, but you can't buy a gun without a FOID card...which means you've had a background check.


IIRC you don't need one at these trade shows. That's why felons are able to purchase guns as long as they don't volunteer that they are a felon.

Edit: Considering FOID cards are good for years a lot of things can change once you get one. Similar to a Driver's License.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:54 pm 
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You people want to takeaway everything that is fundamentally American. If his wife had a gun, she could have stopped him. #Truth

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Is there a prudent time to talk about gun control?

Because unless the statement is "I love guns" it seems Gun guy never wants talk about it.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:

Taking guns away would not have saved his life or hers. His mind was made up and he did what he did. He would have killed her and himself with or without a gun.

I strongly disagree with that. The gun makes it so easy.

Its like travelling to Wisconsin. If I take your car and public transportation away, you can still ride a bike there, but you probably won't.


That analogy is a little stretched but my point is a gun makes killing waaaaay easier. And just owning a gun puts it in your mind as a possibility


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:42 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Its like travelling to Wisconsin. If I take your car and public transportation away, you can still ride a bike there, but you probably won't.
Are you saying that there are lazy murderers that just say "Well, I'd love to kill someone, but it's just such a hassle. Who has the time."?

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:48 pm 
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the piece of shit that attacked my brother in laws Mother didn't need a gun. He used a crow-bar to kill her live-in Boyfriend and leave her with a serious brain injury for the rest of her life. He didn't need a gun to kidnap my brother in laws sister.
she got away b/c she was smart enough to convince him to stop for cigarettes. he was dumb enough to leave the car running.

Regardless, he made up his mind. He knew what he was doing. gun didn't matter.

Once someone snaps...there is no un-snapping.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Its like travelling to Wisconsin. If I take your car and public transportation away, you can still ride a bike there, but you probably won't.
Are you saying that there are lazy murderers that just say "Well, I'd love to kill someone, but it's just such a hassle. Who has the time."?

Pretty much.

Are there instances where people want to kill someone so they get a gun?


I think how easy a gun makes it is being undervalued here.


Doug that's terrible and Im sorry buy i disagree. Sure in some instances the person will find a way.

I think there are also instances where lack of a gun has stopped what would have been a murder.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:20 pm 
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The easiest way to kill someone is probably run them over in your car.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
The easiest way to kill someone is probably run them over in your car.


We need to ban cars or at least put a permanent ban on gas pedals.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Makaveli wrote:
doug - evergreen park wrote:
Makaveli wrote:
No background checks at a gun show. The majority of gun legal gun sales don't happen in a store.


Yeah, but you can't buy a gun without a FOID card...which means you've had a background check.


IIRC you don't need one at these trade shows. That's why felons are able to purchase guns as long as they don't volunteer that they are a felon.

Edit: Considering FOID cards are good for years a lot of things can change once you get one. Similar to a Driver's License.

In Illinois, you still need a FOID at gun shows. They transfer the gun to a licensed dealer at which point you still have waiting periods, background checks, and requires a FOID.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:41 pm 
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I always ask this in threads, and no one ever seems to respond to it... so I'll ask again and hope someone thinks about it...

Why, in the state with the most stringent gun laws, do we lead the league in gun crime?

Anyone who says take the guns away makes it easier is welcome to answer that.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:47 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Is there a prudent time to talk about gun control?

Because unless the statement is "I love guns" it seems Gun guy never wants talk about it.


I'm not a gun guy. I've never owned one and most likely never will. I certainly don't love guns. But what do you mean by gun control? What does Costas want done? Does he want citizens to be forbidden from owning them as they are in China? I've noticed that a lot of people who are in favor of taking guns away from others are always surrounded by armed guards that are being paid for with tax dollars.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
I always ask this in threads, and no one ever seems to respond to it... so I'll ask again and hope someone thinks about it...

Why, in the state with the most stringent gun laws, do we lead the league in gun crime?

Anyone who says take the guns away makes it easier is welcome to answer that.


I don't want to take all your guns away. Just the automatic and semi-automatic assault ones.The answer to your question is that there is a large number of people who want to do bad things. Guns make that easier, more impersonal.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Darkside wrote:
I always ask this in threads, and no one ever seems to respond to it... so I'll ask again and hope someone thinks about it...

Why, in the state with the most stringent gun laws, do we lead the league in gun crime?

Anyone who says take the guns away makes it easier is welcome to answer that.


I don't want to take all your guns away. Just the automatic and semi-automatic assault ones.The answer to your question is that there is a large number of people who want to do bad things. Guns make that easier, more impersonal.

You didn't answer the question at all. Try again.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Dagnabbit.

The answer is Chicago must have a higher percentage of evil doers than everywhere else.

We went over this after the Colorado Batman shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Dagnabbit.

The answer is Chicago must have a higher percentage of evil doers than everywhere else.

We went over this after the Colorado Batman shooting.

OK. Allow me to redirect.
Would this attack have been less deadly with a revolver?
I don't think a bad on assault weapons (the definition of which remains ambiguous) solves the problem.
He needed one bullet to kill himself. As standard 9mm probably has between a 15 round and a 17 round mag. He shot his wife 9 times. Guessing he shot himself once.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:53 pm 
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No you're right in this instance.

Getting rid of every type of gun is never going to happen. I'd settle for getting rid of the automatic ones at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
That gun in your house that you have for protection is more likely to kill a loved one than a foe.

I would have to disagree with this. My weapons will never harm a loved one. I've had firearms in my home for 10 years.
Weapons are the very, very last resort.
A responsible gun owner wouldn't shoot at anything unless he's damn sure what his target is.
Mostly my weapons are used for hunting. I do have a personal protection firearm however.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
He added: “I defy anyone to give me one example when an athlete having a gun averted trouble, defused a situation, protected someone from harm. But we can think of countless situations where an athlete having a gun led to tragedy.”

:roll:
Why would he limit the positive to athelets when he's not limiting his gun control call to athletes?
Kinda weird.
Wasn't there an athlete murdered in his own bedroom that could have been averted had that man had a weapon at his disposal?

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Wasn't there an athlete murdered in his own bedroom that could have been averted had that man had a weapon at his disposal?

He had a machete. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Bob Costas recognized that he was likely to be walking into a minefield with his commentary during halftime of the Sunday night National Football League game on NBC. Prompted by the horror of a murder-suicide carried out the day before by a Kansas City Chiefs football player, Mr. Costas quoted approvingly, and extensively, from a sports column that decried Americans’ easy access to guns.

But Mr. Costas says he has been given the freedom by NBC to editorialize on subjects related to football and sports — views that the network neither specifically endorses nor opposes. And he was convinced, he said in a telephone interview on Monday, that “it was likely that these two people would not be dead” if there hadn’t been a gun available that made it easy to take a life in a moment of anger.

After a flight overnight Sunday back from Dallas, where the Cowboys hosted the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday night, Mr. Costas said he woke to “a zillion text messages and phone messages” about his commentary. Most of them were supportive, he said, but there was also a torrent of harshly critical comments from defenders of gun ownership, whether online or on TV shows like “Fox and Friends” on the Fox News Network. Some of those critics called for NBC to fire him.

In the Monday interview, Mr. Costas said, “I am emphatically not backing off from anything I said.” But he noted that in the commentary he had quoted from a column posted on the Web site of Fox Sports by the writer Jason Whitlock. Since he was not able to reach Mr. Whitlock before going on the air on Sunday, Mr. Costas said he did not feel it proper to edit or add extensively to those comments.

What he sought to do in his comments the day after, Mr. Costas said, was not to clarify his remarks but to expand on them. Chiefly, he said, he wanted to emphasize that “I do not think the Second Amendment should be repealed and I do not think, under reasonable circumstances, that people should be prohibited from having guns.”

But he said, “I think most reasonable people think we do not have sufficient controls on the availability of guns and ammunition.”

He called for “a combination of enlightened legislation and controls, coupled with an adjustment in our attitude toward guns.” He added, “Common sense tells us the culture is overrun by guns and that many people who possess them are dangerous or careless.”

Many of the harshest reactions to Mr. Costas’s comments charged that it was inappropriate to use the platform of an NFL telecast to make arguments concerning a hot-button issue like gun control.

Mr. Costas noted in response that N.F.L. coverage on many networks had talked about the incident all day on Sunday. Jovan Belcher, a linebacker for the Chiefs, killed Kasandra Perkins, the mother of their 3-month-old daughter, Zoey, and then drove to his team’s stadium, where he killed himself in front of his coach and general manager.

Mr. Costas added that he had routinely used his time during halftime coverage to make personal observations and comments on a number of football-related subjects, including the level of violence displayed on the field.

He said the criticisms of his commentary “hold no weight with me” because the same people saying that that was an inappropriate time and place to talk about the gun issue “would have thought it was fine if they agreed with what I was saying.”

The issue of guns has come up far too often in sports already, he said, with athletes seeming to be among the groups with the most gun owners. “Do you think the place guns have in sports is appropriate?” Mr. Costas asked. “That it’s healthy?”

He added: “I defy anyone to give me one example when an athlete having a gun averted trouble, defused a situation, protected someone from harm. But we can think of countless situations where an athlete having a gun led to tragedy.”


What a...... I'll be nice. How lazy, and, how sanctimonious. If I can paraphrase, Costas is essentially saying, guns often cause bad things, we shouldn't outlaw them, we need some kind of law that somehow will stop some bad things from happening sometimes, and nobody cares about bad things as much as I do.

Great. It must be quite an ego booster to have a soapbox where you can make moral decrees that have zero substance, and not have to engage in any kind of debate or actually give some thought to your "arguments", such as they are.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:55 pm 
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I feel gun control should mean "MAKE IT HARDER TO BUY FUCKING GUNS".
Right now,any stunod can go fill out a permit form and go buy a gun. They can also go to a "collectable" show and purchase a gun,usually with no questions asked.
I believe nobody should own a gun except crabby old guys chasing kids off the lawn.

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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:36 am 
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Beautiful. Good for her. Elitist f'n snobs with $$it for brains.


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 Post subject: Re: whitlock/costas
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:39 am 
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I hate people who shoot up movie theaters.

I also hate elitist, sanctimonious fascists with feeble minds that think they know better than everyone else.

I am not sure which one I hate more.


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