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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:27 am 
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:lol: So these likely six-figure administrators though it would be a good idea to let kids use their cell phones in class? This is the same school about 7/8 years ago that had to have a breathalyzer at their football games for the student entrance.

BY BILL BIRD

Officials of Naperville School District 203 are dealing with an apparently significant instance of cheating at Naperville Central High School, involving a recently inaugurated program that allows students to supplement traditional classroom lessons and exercises with their wireless telephones and other electronic communication devices.

Principal Bill Wiesbrook on Friday sent a letter to Naperville Central parents that acknowledged cheating had occurred there late last month. Wiesbrook did not identify the classroom or classrooms in which the cheating occurred or the number of students who were involved in it.

Administrators routinely cite district privacy policies in refusing to discuss with professional media such academic issues as cheating or disciplinary actions taken against students or faculty members.

But Wiesbrook met Monday with reporters for the Central Times, Naperville Central’s student newspaper, “to explain the events of that day and (discuss) the actions taken by the school,” the newspaper reported. The meeting took place after administrators discovered “significant findings of academic dishonesty and, in at least one case, drug-related involvement” on the parts of students, according to the Central Times account.

A student on Nov. 28 told the teacher of an AP Macroeconomics course other pupils were cheating on a test or were about to do so, the newspaper reported Tuesday. The instructor took that information to the schools’ deans.

“AP Macroeconomics is a class that pilots the ‘Bring Your Own Device’ program,” according to the Central Times article. It “allows students to use their cell phones or other electronic devices to supplement classroom activities.”

Following the teacher’s report of possible cheating, the deans interviewed the accused students and confiscated their wireless telephones, Wiesbrook told the paper. They learned “through the admission of some of the students and through what they found on the cell phones” that cheating had occurred, he said.

The instructor on Monday told her students “there’s cheating, it’s more than one class, and it’s more than one test,” according to the Central Times narrative. The teacher lamented the cheating made the Bring Your Own Device program “look like the stupidest idea ever,” the article stated.

Wiesbrook said the accused students consented to having their phones examined. That “helped determine the level and range of the cheating, including how many courses were involved and what assignments had been cheated on,” the newspaper reported.

The account did not indicate how many students allegedly took part in the cheating. But Wiesbrook and Assistant Principal for Curriculum Jackie Thornton “confirmed rumors that had been circulating about possible photos of drug usage or text message communications” concerning narcotics abuse and transactions.

“At least one of the phones contained some drug-related information,” the paper quoted Wiesbrook as saying. “I cannot confirm or deny that this included photographs.”

Disciplinary action is to be “determined on a case-by-case basis,” according to the article. Thornton said while the incident “could impact college admissions for some of the students involved ... I think it’s too early to know.”

Wiesbrook’s letter to parents confirmed that “concerns about student cheating at Naperville Central were recently brought to the attention of school staff by other students.”

“We commend these students for taking the appropriate action when they observed behavior that was frustrating and wrong,” Wiesbrook’s letter read in part. “Reporting suspicions of cheating is a form of academic integrity,” which is “critical to the culture of any school, and one of the core values of NCHS and our district.”

“The ramifications of academic dishonesty extend beyond the content of a single test, the sharing of a ‘few answers’ or the copying of someone else’s words, which is the lesson we want all students to understand.”

Wiesbrook said he encouraged parents to discuss with their children “the importance of acting with integrity in all things. It is better to be honest and fall short of a goal than to take an unethical shortcut and reach a goal. The end is not more important than the path taken to reach the end.”

“Students caught violating the school disciplinary code will receive the appropriate consequence, but the long-term ramifications of the decision to cheat can extend far past a student’s days at Central,” Wiesbrook wrote. “This is an important message that should be communicated together.”

Susan E. Rice, the district’s director of communications, did not immediately respond to The Sun’s late Friday request to speak to Wiesbrook about the Bring Your Own Device program, and to have him comment on the content of the Central Times story.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:38 am 
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What the blazing hell does a kid need with a cellphone in a classroom to begin with? It sure as hell isn't the secret to teaching, that's for damnably sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:55 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
What the blazing hell does a kid need with a cellphone in a classroom to begin with? It sure as hell isn't the secret to teaching, that's for damnably sure.



Most schools have policy that the student can bring the cellphone to school but they must keep it in their lockers. They never do.

And just try and enforce it and the parents will go fucking bonkers...actually, parents go ape fucking shit about anything concerning their kids and school these days.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Cheating in class? Surprised anyone cares. Cheating in sports--that gets the outrage going. At least they are not ass-fingering each other.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:44 pm 
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So on what grounds can the school confiscate and search a student's cell phone?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Killer V wrote:
So on what grounds can the school confiscate and search a student's cell phone?


If it is deemed "reasonable". Same goes with lockers and bags.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:16 pm 
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The genius who decided that it would be a good idea to let kids use cell phones as part of the learning experience should be fired immediately.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:21 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
The genius who decided that it would be a good idea to let kids use cell phones as part of the learning experience should be fired immediately.


There is a big push in grad school to treat kids like adults and assume they are all honest and would never take advantage of the system. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:10 pm 
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In my (college) classes I have this policy in my syllabi:
Cell Phones are to be kept in your pocket, bag, purse, or body cavity. I don't care where you keep it as long as it is not out. Not on the table, not in your lap, not in your hand. If I see a cell phone on your desk during the first week of class, I will remind you to put it away. After that if I catch your cell phone out and/or you are using it during class time, I will end class immediately and leave. You will be responsible for whatever material I was going to cover that day...even material that is not in your textbook. So police each other, it hurts you if others are breaking rules.

So far this semester I have ended class early only once.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:30 pm 
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When I approached AT&T about slowing my son's texting while he is at college, I said I was concerned about 6000+ texts a month. The sales guy laughed, said the average is closer to 12,000 texts per month. One every three minutes of every day if you are awake 20 hours a day. These kids can't keep up their normal routine if they aren't at it constantly...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:24 am 
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The thing that bothers me is to hear how much kids are using computers in the classroom instead of reading books and writing thing down on paper. Schools don't like kids using Wikipedia for sources, but they feel the need to use the computer for everything. Honestly, people talk about technology as if not using a computer will make them unable to find a job. When in reality there are a limited number of tech jobs and there are plenty of other jobs where people don't use computers to do their work. I know that in some college classes and probably some high school classes kids are just using the computer in front of them for surfing the web and doing things that are entirely unrelated to their class. Also why do grade school and high school kids need laptops and iPads?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:34 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
The thing that bothers me is to hear how much kids are using computers in the classroom instead of reading books and writing thing down on paper. Schools don't like kids using Wikipedia for sources, but they feel the need to use the computer for everything. Honestly, people talk about technology as if not using a computer will make them unable to find a job. When in reality there are a limited number of tech jobs and there are plenty of other jobs where people don't use computers to do their work. I know that in some college classes and probably some high school classes kids are just using the computer in front of them for surfing the web and doing things that are entirely unrelated to their class. Also why do grade school and high school kids need laptops and iPads?
Make a list of the jobs that don't require the use of a computer, and you'll start to see why it's vitally important that all kids, whether rich or poor, have access to computers. I doubt you'd let your kids be twenty five years old with no computer skills. I know I wouldn't. That's why it's important for schools to help bridge the digital divide.

Schools also need to stop blaming technology for cheating. They need to do a better job protecting against it. Technology has made it harder to cheat effectively, not easier.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:42 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:
The thing that bothers me is to hear how much kids are using computers in the classroom instead of reading books and writing thing down on paper. Schools don't like kids using Wikipedia for sources, but they feel the need to use the computer for everything. Honestly, people talk about technology as if not using a computer will make them unable to find a job. When in reality there are a limited number of tech jobs and there are plenty of other jobs where people don't use computers to do their work. I know that in some college classes and probably some high school classes kids are just using the computer in front of them for surfing the web and doing things that are entirely unrelated to their class. Also why do grade school and high school kids need laptops and iPads?
Make a list of the jobs that don't require the use of a computer, and you'll start to see why it's vitally important that all kids, whether rich or poor, have access to computers. I doubt you'd let your kids be twenty five years old with no computer skills. I know I wouldn't. That's why it's important for schools to help bridge the digital divide.


What digital divide are you referring to? I'm not completely against using computers in school, but I think they are completely overrated in their value to education.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:47 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
What digital divide are you referring to?
The one that describes who has computer skills and who doesn't. Here is a hint: If you are poor, you are much more likely to have poor computer skills and have little to no shot at most higher paying jobs. That's why they do this in schools. It's a counter to that. It's not because they think it's cool that have laptops. It's because computer skills are just as important as math and science now.
Mini Ditka wrote:
I'm not completely against using computers in school, but I think they are completely overrated in their value to education.
Why? Let's take two kids. The first kid never learns about computers. The second kid never learns about physics. Who has the better job prospects?

Good luck if you are a graduate of high school or college if you don't have excellent computer skills. What kind of jobs are you going to get?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:49 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Good luck if you are a graduate of high school or college if you don't have excellent computer skills. What kind of jobs are you going to get?


I think we need to come up with a list of jobs that don't use computers.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:52 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Good luck if you are a graduate of high school or college if you don't have excellent computer skills. What kind of jobs are you going to get?


I think we need to come up with a list of jobs that don't use computers.
Go for it. The result would paint a very narrow path of well paying jobs with little hope of advancement given virtually any management position requires computer skills these days.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:54 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Technology has made it harder to cheat effectively, not easier.


Brick, I am with you on everything here, but not really understanding this statement. How so?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:09 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Technology has made it harder to cheat effectively, not easier.


Brick, I am with you on everything here, but not really understanding this statement. How so?
There is a huge anti-cheating industry that has popped up. I experienced it first hand in college. In college, my freshman year, I had a friend who was getting a CS minor in my class. He was struggling with a program, and it was due soon. He asked for my help, and I stupidly helped him too much. I didn't show him any of my code, but I basically tutored him through the program. Things like "First, we need to count the total number of items in the list". I wasn't writing his code at all, but I was telling him how I would do it. About a week later, I get told to wait after class, and that I am being suspected of cheating and that I have to have a meeting with the head TA. It turns out I was one of about 20 people they had discovered with "similar code with at least one other person". Some were worse than others. I explained my case, admitted everything honestly, and they gave me a 30% penalty on my project even though both the other guy and me said that he didn't help me at all. I even told them that I was just doing what a TA would do, but they said that you still have to go to a TA for help.

They have all sorts of similarity algorithms they run. This was 2000, and they've extended them greatly. They have ones now that can find sentences stolen off pretty much anything that's publicly on the internet, as well as a lot of other sites. They also check similarity between test answers, and compare it to expected results. Basically, if the same 10 people all get the same 5 questions wrong, it raises a red flag. It can get really advanced, comparing scores among all tests and other stuff.

Now, obviously if schools don't use this kind of stuff it's easier to cheat, but it's becoming very popular all over the place as the prices have gone down. Also, if a teacher is dumb enough to let someone use a smartphone during a test it won't be, but the same people would write down answers on the inside of their arm before.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
What digital divide are you referring to? I'm not completely against using computers in school, but I think they are completely overrated in their value to education.


Then you will not be happy to know that schools are trying to get away from books completely as it is becoming more cost effective to purchase an IPad and download books electronically than to buy hard cover books. I already know at some point in my career Ill stop using text books all together.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:15 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:
What digital divide are you referring to? I'm not completely against using computers in school, but I think they are completely overrated in their value to education.


Then you will not be happy to know that schools are trying to get away from books completely as it is becoming more cost effective to purchase an IPad and download books electronically than to buy hard cover books. I already know at some point in my career Ill stop using text books all together.
The children survived when typewriters went away too Mini Ditka. Don't worry.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:16 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:
What digital divide are you referring to? I'm not completely against using computers in school, but I think they are completely overrated in their value to education.


Then you will not be happy to know that schools are trying to get away from books completely as it is becoming more cost effective to purchase an IPad and download books electronically than to buy hard cover books. I already know at some point in my career Ill stop using text books all together.

Earth is trying to get away from books completely. Earth in general and Boilermaker Rick specifically.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Good luck if you are a graduate of high school or college if you don't have excellent computer skills. What kind of jobs are you going to get?


I think we need to come up with a list of jobs that don't use computers.
Go for it.


Some of the jobs that don't use computers are typically any form of physical labor that makes you sweat. Here is a short list:

Construction Workers
Landscapers
Plumbers
Some Mechanics
Movers
Factory Workers
Truck Drivers
Delivery Drivers
Baristas
Cashiers
Wait Staff
Cook
Janitors
Fast Food Employees
Day Care Workers
Beautician
Farm Laborer

The above list is mostly careers that do not require a college education and that a trade school might be in place of a college degree.

I'm not saying a kid shouldn't know how to type or send e-mail, but I think there is a misconception that being able to use a computer is the most important factor in you being able to get a job. Most jobs have some form of technology involved, but not everyone is writing computer code or doing graphic design. There are jobs where all you need to know is a certain small set of skills. A temp agency just wants you to be able to type, answer the phone and do data entry.

My issue is the educational system that says, "Stay in school and follow your dream." Colleges pump out far more people with degrees than there are positions in those fields. It's like everyone thinks they can make movies or a be a rock star until they figure out the odds are against them and there is very little money to be made in those fields without knowing some people to get you gigs. The smartest rock stars were always the ones who quit the band and started a management agency.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Mini Ditka wrote:

Construction Workers Ever hear of CAD
Landscapers Also uses CAD
Plumbers
Some Mechanics Most diagnostics are computerized nowdays
Movers
Factory Workers CNC Machines? Diagnostics? All computerized
Truck Drivers GPS and logistics all computerized
Delivery Drivers GPS and logistics all computerizedBaristas
Cashiers most cash registers ARE computers
Wait Staff Orders and the tabs are all done on computers. You can pay via wifi at Chilis
Cook See above... most orders come thru on a computer display now
Janitors
Fast Food Employees See Wait staff and cooks note above
Day Care Workers
Beautician
Farm Laborer

Our list is mostly careers that do not require a college education and that a trade school might be in place of a college degree.

I'm not saying a kid shouldn't know how to type or send e-mail, but I think there is a misconception that being able to use a computer is the most important factor in you being able to get a job. Most jobs have some form of technology involved, but not everyone is writing computer code or doing graphic design. There are jobs where all you need to know is a certain small set of skills. A temp agency just wants you to be able to type, answer the phone and do data entry.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:01 am 
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Darkside wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:

Construction Workers Ever hear of CAD
Landscapers Also uses CAD
Plumbers
Some Mechanics Most diagnostics are computerized nowdays
Movers
Factory Workers CNC Machines? Diagnostics? All computerized
Truck Drivers GPS and logistics all computerized
Delivery Drivers GPS and logistics all computerizedBaristas
Cashiers most cash registers ARE computers
Wait Staff Orders and the tabs are all done on computers. You can pay via wifi at Chilis
Cook See above... most orders come thru on a computer display now
Janitors
Fast Food Employees See Wait staff and cooks note above
Day Care Workers
Beautician
Farm Laborer


I am willing to acknowledge there are computerized aspects to those jobs, but someone who didn't grow up with computers can probably learn enough to still do those jobs. There may be aspects of those jobs that involve computers, but the primary skill required to do those jobs is not computer knowledge.

I know that people don't think there's any difference between a kindle and a piece of paper, but when you're editing writing you will catch mistakes as you read it on paper that you don't pick up on the screen. There is a difference between the two. It's kind of like the difference between Facebook friends and friends you see regularly.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:46 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
Construction Workers
Landscapers
Plumbers
Some Mechanics
Movers
Factory Workers
Truck Drivers
Delivery Drivers
Baristas
Cashiers
Wait Staff
Cook
Janitors
Fast Food Employees
Day Care Workers
Beautician
Farm Laborer
Now you see why it's so vitally important for each student to have excellent computer skills. Many of those jobs are low paying and many of the others, such as factory workers, mechanics, and cooks require a significant amount of ability on computers. This will only get more important as our whole society continues to be computerized.

In todays workforce, many older people who failed to get a firm grasp on computers were passed by and hit a career ceiling because of it. It is the duty of all schools to make sure that they aren't graduating people who will be dealing with the same thing at 18 to 25 when they go out looking for that first real job.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:46 am 
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Even though there are some computerized aspects to certain I don't think it's so hard that your average person under 30 can't pick up on it with a little training. The people who lack computer skills are usually older people who did not grow up with computers. They may struggle to check e-mail, update Facebook, download basic software, etc.

Going to high school doesn't usually significantly prepare students for regular jobs. There are teachers that hold the student's hand if they are getting Ds and Fs in classes. Plus a lot of the classes don't have direct correlation to basic life skills or job skills. The schools that most prepare students are the private prep school that focus on core cirriculum to get their students into college.

There is such an emphasis on technology that basis skills such as reading, writing, spelling and math are neglected. You have a society with young people who know how to use a computer, but do not read well and are ignorant of a lot of basic information. The larger problem with the public educational system is that they have plenty of resources at their disposal, but they fail to provide the quality education of a private school, be it high school or grade school.

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