Im more worried Darko thinks Lee Harvey ( you madman!!) fired the shots that gave JFK a cool new part in his hair.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I wish the pro-gun crowd would just come out and admit they would rather have their guns than save a few extra lives. It would be much more genuine than this nonsense about self-defense and how guns don't contribute to murders.

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One of the most deadly attacks in history of this country was perpetrated by a handful of guys with box cutters.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

The fact that you think that's what the "pro-gun" crowd thinks shows your ignorance of the "pro-gun" crowd.
Not one of us wants people to be killed.

We simply know better that to falsely believe that attempts to control guns will save lives.

We have "murder control". Murder was illegal. But that didn't stop him.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Your brush sure paints in broad strokes, how did you gain this intimate knowledge about "pro-gun" people?

Anyways....


So, all we have to do is ban guns and all these lives will be saved? Well, what are we waiting for???!!?!?!?!??!?

Banning guns does nothing, absolutely nothing, to stop gun violence.
It's been proved several times.
This is why I don't support some of the proposed measures.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

So you're telling me if there was a conclusive study which showed without question that bans on handguns would save 5 lives a year, you would be in favor of banning handguns?

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I'll answer that if you answer this.
If a study came out that conclusively showed that withholding American's 4th Amendment rights to be secure from warrentless search and seizure would save 5 lives a year would you support striking down the 4th amendment?
Or if a study shows that revoking the American right to free speech would save 5 lives a year, would you be willing to be silenced by the government to save 5 lives?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Cite your evidence.
Because gun control in Chicago and DC did little to nothing to stem the tide of murders and violence. We already knew that. But you just kinda come in and state that like it was some kind of proven facts. I don't think that it's exactly settled science.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

No I wouldn't. That's my point. Just come out and say you don't want to trade your freedom for potential lives saved. It's not immoral. But I do find it disingenuous to pretend that stricter gun control laws nationwide wouldn't likely lower deaths from guns.

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He could have made an explosive device & blew them all up.

I'll say it like this. No freedom is free. Millions of lives have already been given to ensure all our freedoms. This isn't some "Obama's takin our freedoms" post. It's the fact. And the thing is, to preserve freedoms, lives still must be given. We don't own these freedoms. We barely lease them. Some people think it's bought and paid for. Our freedoms aren't ours by divine rights, they're ours because we pay for them each day.
No, I wouldn't support repeal of the constitution for the benefit of saving any number of lives. Not the 2nd ammendment, not the 1st, not the 4th or the 5th or any other for that matter. Because these freedoms still everyday need to be paid for. It's not always someone paying the price who chooses to. Sometimes it's someone who chose to put their ass on the line like an enlisted soldier, sometimes, it's a drafted soldier. Sometimes its' someone who had no choice, someone who was murdered (like King) or someone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
But your question is invalid because of the extreme hyperbole. There's no way one could ever quantify the price of the submission of our freedoms.
The constitution isn't perfect. And it's not guaranteed. We still have to fight for what we have. Lots of people really don't understand it. They take their freedoms for granted. Like something they were given by birthright. But we still have to earn them. We still ahve to fight for them. Therefore, there will always be casualties.
Its the price we pay to ahve what we have. I don't like it. no one would. But it's what we must do.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's silly. Again, please, answer why gun control in Illinois and particularly the extreme gun control in Chicago did not do what you say it will do.

You're guessing, forming a hypothesis, which isn't really a problem, but you're stating it like it is fact which it is not.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is a good point. 15 men who could not commit their crime with guns managed to kill over 3000 people with box cutters.
If there's the will, there's a way.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Also... to respond to the OP...

I'd say today is a great day to talk about it.
It's the worst possible day to legislate about it.

We should be of sound and calm mind when we pass laws.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You're making the incredibly false presumption that it guns were illegal, this murderer wouldn't have tried to get the exact same ones on the black market. Stricter gun control might save lives, it might not. There's evidence indicating it does, and evidence indicating it has no effect. But I'm pretty sure, although I can't be 100%, that a crime like this or the Colorado shooting is happening regardless of how many anti gun laws people want to legislate.

Sane, rational people cannot wrap their heads around how a 20 year old kid could murder 20 children, so the weapon he utilizes becomes the scapegoat. The legality argument is just silly when talking about someone who murdered 27 people and then committed suicide. It's preposterous that otherwise intelligent people can convince themselves that if owning a gun was illegal than this kid would have chosen that specific law to abide by.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I understand shotguns, I understand hand guns, I understand hunting rifles. I don't understand why a private citizen needs a rifle that holds 30 bullets regardless of whether it is auto or semi-automatic. I mean what are you using that kind of gun for?

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If you understand those things, you should understand that none of them are automatic.
You would also understand that your average hunting rifle, say, a 7mm Remington, is considerably more dangerous than an "assualt rifle".
Why do they need it? I don't know. I don't understand a lot of things that people say they need. I don't understand why anyone really needs a $5 cup of coffee. What do you need that kind of Coffee for? I mean, you can get a 99 cent cup of coffee at mcD's or make your own.

I'd tend to agree with you however. I don't particularly see the use of or need for these AR15's or AK47s. i know a few guys with them, and I wonder what damn good they'll do them. But whatever, it's their right.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I didn't say that last one was an automatic. I'm not mistaken I believe their are civilian versions of military weapons that are not automatic but have the capability of firing 30 bullets without reloading. I don't get what people need something like that for, and I don't think someone buying a $5 cup of coffee is comparable to someone buying a gun like that. Unless you're fighting off a zombie horde I don't see the practical purpose of owing a gun like that. Additionally, if I buy a cup of coffee and don't drink it right away I don't have to worry about someone stealing it in order to kill people.

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Help me here.
What difference is it to fire 30 rounds without reloading oe firing 30 rounds and reloading twice?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I don't know maybe 6 or 7 people.

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Um that is not true ,all you need is the proper permit to own and fire a fully automatic weapon. There used to be a range here in the QCA where you could rent a weapon per hour. You paid the rental fee plus ammo costs. Nothing like letting fly with a full clip.
Also there is a yearly round up help I think in Tenn where people bring out the heavy stuff and destroy stuff. I remember the biggest thing was a 40mm autocannon,plus .50 cals and such.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Can you explain that or is it just a smart assy thing to say?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This is what I'll say. Guns are different than knives, different than cars, different than spoons, cups of coffee, drugs and whatever anyone wants to compare them to. They are designed to do one thing and one thing only. As I've stated previously I generally have no issue with sane people owning firearms. I don't want to take them away from people, I can respect people's opinions when they say they own firearms for protection, there's nothing inherently wrong with gun ownership. I understand it, it's just not my cup of tea.

What I question is what seems like a prevailing attitude of: "let's get as many guns as possible before The Government comes and takes them away." I don't understand that line of thinking and I don't understand why a private citizen would need to own a firearm that is capable of being shot 30 times before it needed to be reloaded. You asked a question about what the difference between being able to fire off 30 rounds vs. having to reload after 15. I, perhaps glibly, stated that more lives could be saved if someone were forced to stop shooting in order to reload. Whether it's the half a second it takes a shooter to reload that allows a bystander to tackle, run further away, or hell even prepare to return fire, that's a half second you don't get with a 30 round clip.

So I ask again. What possible purpose does it serve for a private citizen to own a firearm with those capabilities, what possible defensive purpose could a firearm like that serve?

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I couldn't agree more. We spend nearly $1T a year on defense and anyone that believes their guns are going to protect them from their government are complete idiots. Even after a shooting like this we have people advocating that everyone should have any type of gun. Who cares about mental capacity or training? Giving teachers guns is a new solution. It's really annoying listening to and reading some of these comments.

It's been established that a weapon made to kill people easily can't be blamed when it is used to kill people easily. I've never advocated getting rid of all guns when you hear the dumb defenses to guns I'm embarrassed to be a pro gun guy.

IMU, are you seriously saying that more laws on concealed carry would have prevented this ?????

yeah because the laws on conceal carry have prevented the 8 murdered, 20 wounded that is in the paper every single week here

I would like to ask the people that are pro guns and don't want to give up their right to bear arms what their solution is then in curbing gun violence?

That is all.

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More guns.

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