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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
My addendum to what he said was better than what he actually did but didn't say.


I've got your addendum right here.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:56 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
It's obviously the Irish.

What leads you to believe the present is any different than the past?



So true.

We should be more like the Poles and lay down for every invader like a hooker on a troop ship.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
My addendum to what he said was better than what he actually did but didn't say.


We also know the names of Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussien. Do you remember the names of anybody they killed? I know who Mohaamed Attah was, but can't name a single 9-11 victim off the top of my head. I know who Jeffrey Dahmer was but don't know who he killed or how they tasted.



Peter Sosnoski was the name of a priest I saw in the Holocaust Museum in DC last year.
There was a film of him facing a firing squad in a forest in Northern Germany. I'll never forget the look on his face right before the Nazi's shot him.

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The victims are the American People and the Republic itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's obviously the Irish.

What leads you to believe the present is any different than the past?



So true.

We should be more like the Poles and lay down for every invader like a hooker on a troop ship.


One country put up a fight against the nazis but were defeated because of an inadequate army and no support from allies. Even under nazi occupation that country had an underground network that used guerilla warfare and spying to help aid the ally war effort.

The other provided safe harbor to nazi subs.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Lack of parenting

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:05 pm 
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The Mental system in the country is a joke. I admire Regan but what he did to the system is a travesty. Closing down the hospitals/long term care facilities and making it virtually impossible to commit someone against their will. The way we basically ignore those who need help because we just do not care. I think the reason people whee okay with the shutting down of the facilities is not that they thought it was okay but that of how we thought people where treated there. Let's face it some people need to be locked up .criminal or not.They are a danger to others and themselves. Some just can't function in the world or care for themselves.

Our sick gun culture. The glorification of gun violence. Let's face it ,it needs to change. The way our society thinks nothing of gun play. In movies it can be excessive but the way you have rappers doing videos with guns and shit is terrible. We have no respect for what a firearm can do if employed. Look at all of the shootings we have,not just mass shootings but the day to day stuff.
Look at two countries where the entire population is required to have/carry a firearm,are trained in the proper use and when not to use it. Israel and Sweden. They have far more guns per person than we do ,yet almost no gun violence as we do. Virtually no random mass shootings either.Why? Because they teach people how to respect guns and they do not tolerate it. I also personally believe that the reason the Palestinians blow themselves up is if they where in a crowded market in Hafia ,shouted Alla Akbar pulled a gun and started shooting it would last about 4-5 shots before everyone pulled their Uzis and stopped them

Also a general lack of morality. I find it funny that people convicted of violent crimes are back on the street far faster than someone convicted of drug crime.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:07 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
The Mental system in the country is a joke. I admire Regan but what he did to the system is a travesty. Closing down the hospitals/long term care facilities and making it virtually impossible to commit someone against their will. The way we basically ignore those who need help because we just do not care. I think the reason people whee okay with the shutting down of the facilities is not that they thought it was okay but that of how we thought people where treated there. Let's face it some people need to be locked up .criminal or not.They are a danger to others and themselves. Some just can't function in the world or care for themselves.

Our sick gun culture. The glorification of gun violence. Let's face it ,it needs to change. The way our society thinks nothing of gun play. In movies it can be excessive but the way you have rappers doing videos with guns and shit is terrible. We have no respect for what a firearm can do if employed. Look at all of the shootings we have,not just mass shootings but the day to day stuff.
Look at two countries where the entire population is required to have/carry a firearm,are trained in the proper use and when not to use it. Israel and Sweden. They have far more guns per person than we do ,yet almost no gun violence as we do. Virtually no random mass shootings either.Why? Because they teach people how to respect guns and they do not tolerate it. I also personally believe that the reason the Palestinians blow themselves up is if they where in a crowded market in Hafia ,shouted Alla Akbar pulled a gun and started shooting it would last about 4-5 shots before everyone pulled their Uzis and stopped them

Also a general lack of morality. I find it funny that people convicted of violent crimes are back on the street far faster than someone convicted of drug crime.


Agreed with the mental health attitudes in this country.

As far as the violence goes, are you going to be the first man here to give up your violent video games?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:37 pm 
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I don't play any,lol
I play some wargames but all of them have minimal graphic. I play mostly stuff that is like board games made by Avalon hill.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:29 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:

The other provided safe harbor to nazi subs.


Right, and they were all captained by Morgan Freeman.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:46 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's obviously the Irish.

What leads you to believe the present is any different than the past?



So true.

We should be more like the Poles and lay down for every invader like a hooker on a troop ship.


One country put up a fight against the nazis but were defeated because of an inadequate army and no support from allies. Even under nazi occupation that country had an underground network that used guerilla warfare and spying to help aid the ally war effort.

The other provided safe harbor to nazi subs.


Indeed.

All of you cretins should be keeping Jan Sobieski and Marian Rejewski in your thoughts!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:08 am 
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Keeping Score wrote:
I sure don't believe guns are helping any, but what is causing all of this anger, despair, total disregard for human life in the first place?

Both parents working not enough time with kids?

Divorce rate much higher than successful marriage rate?

Single parent homes?

Economy, not enough good jobs, despair?

Mental illnesses either over or under prescribed?

Not enough God? Too much God?

Desensitization (Movies, Video Games, Music lyrics etc....)?

Parents can no longer discipline kids as in the past? (Spanking in public could lead to arrest etc...)

etc....etc.....etc.....


Yes.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:57 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's obviously the Irish.

What leads you to believe the present is any different than the past?



So true.

We should be more like the Poles and lay down for every invader like a hooker on a troop ship.


One country put up a fight against the nazis but were defeated because of an inadequate army and no support from allies. Even under nazi occupation that country had an underground network that used guerilla warfare and spying to help aid the ally war effort.

The other provided safe harbor to nazi subs.


Indeed.

All of you cretins should be keeping Jan Sobieski and Marian Rejewski in your thoughts!


You could make the argument that Jan Sobieski's victory was the single most important moment in modern history. If Vienna falls, the entire world is a different place today...and how is Poland repaid for this? It is continually left to stand alone against traditionally hostile, warlike and empirialistic peoples to its east and west.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:12 am 
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Need I say more??


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:01 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
I think it all boils down the fundamental issue that homo sapiens were not genetically evolved over millions of years to live the way we do today. Often devoid of a healthy, loving social group, isolated, inundated by technology, and so on. Causes a lot of mental problems.


The first part is a key focus of the Daniel Quinn books. I don't think his concept of tribalism can work; however, at the heart of it, you do have to wonder what a culture change might bring. Neither he nor I are looking to go back to being cavemen, but hierarchical structures and divisions at each class level are getting worse. It happens more often in lower class groups because there is less to fight over and more fear; therefore, more violence. While shootings like these at higher class levels are equally atroicous, they don't happen anywhere near the frequency of those at lower levels because there is already more to go about and not the same level of fear. There is no way you will not think I am a socialist after these comments, but I am in fact not for socialism as I think it also has fundamental flaws. You can't redistribute wealth; rather, you need to change the way we define, accumulate and look at wealth.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:03 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Violent crime is down significantly since the early 90's. Chicago is an exception. You are seeing more media coverage because of the Internet and sensationalized jouranlism. From the Economist:

Murder rates
There will be less blood
In two of America’s biggest cities, fewer people are being killed

Dec 8th 2012 | NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON, DC | from the print edition

All dressed up and nowhere to go

NEW YORK CITY’S body count had been rising steadily when Brian Watkins, a tourist from Utah, was stabbed in the heart while defending his family from muggers in 1990. One of 2,262 murders in the city that year, his death seemed to embody New York’s status as the most violent place in America. But the city had competition, not least from Washington, DC, which was mired in a crack epidemic that consumed even its mayor. The District of Columbia, a fraction the size of New York, saw over 400 killings a year in the early 1990s. It became “the murder capital of America”.

That was then. Today New York is on course to end the year with around 400 killings, a level not seen since John Kennedy was in the White House. It was remarkable when, for 36 hours last month, no one at all was stabbed, shot or murdered in the city. The District, meanwhile, looks certain to have suffered fewer than 100 killings this year, the lowest number recorded for nearly half a century.

Although New York and Washington stand out, violent crime has been declining nationally for some 20 years. The trend is not uniform—Chicago and Detroit, for example, have seen their murder rates jump this year—but life in America is generally safer than it was two decades ago. Criminologists are wondering why.

Innovative police efforts, like CompStat, a crime-mapping system, and the “broken-windows” strategy, which focuses on restoring order to communities, were implemented in New York in the early 1990s, and crime rates began to fall. More recently department officials have been trying Operation Impact, a programme which floods troubled areas with police, mostly new recruits. Crime in these “hotspots” tends to drop at twice the citywide rate. The controversial stop-and-frisk policy, under which people suspected of criminal activity are stopped and checked for weapons, is also considered helpful. Ray Kelly, the police commissioner, claims that such proactive policing saved over 5,600 lives between 2002 and 2011.

Some of the tactics used in New York have made their way to the District, where Cathy Lanier, the police chief, credits her department’s crackdown on guns and gangs for the recent decline in violence. As with Mr Kelly, there has been some controversy along the way, for instance when she set up checkpoints around an especially gang-plagued neighbourhood, or proposed that police should go door-to-door in search of guns. Some see her efforts as more public-relations than policing, but it is hard to argue with the results.

And that is the problem. With success in fighting crime so widespread, most police departments can point to tactics that correlate with declining violence. But many were not in place when the declines began, so proving cause and effect is hard. This had led some to propose broader explanations for the safer streets, such as reduced exposure to lead, which can make people more violent; increasing gentrification; or a preference among young hoodlums for playing video games.

For their part, both New York and Washington continue to innovate, applying technology and forming partnerships with the business community. New York, for instance, has jointly developed a real-time tracking tool with Microsoft that it plans to sell to other police departments. As the District battles a rise in less serious crime, it may be a customer.


In some ways this is similar to the War on Drugs. There was actually a decline in drug use until Nixon and Reagan's war went into full effect. I wonder if a similar War on Guns is about to be waged.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Keep in mind that I'm a complete maroon, but getting back to guns for a second, how 'bout a gun buyback program? Like maybe $1000 per gun.

Would that help any?


No


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Keep in mind that I'm a complete maroon, but getting back to guns for a second, how 'bout a gun buyback program? Like maybe $1000 per gun.

Would that help any?


No.

Cause you could trade in the crappy old shotgun you got from granddad and with the $1000 go buy a nicer, more dangerous semi-automatic handgun.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Keeping Score wrote:
Keep in mind that I'm a complete maroon, but getting back to guns for a second, how 'bout a gun buyback program? Like maybe $1000 per gun.

Would that help any?


Get $1000, go spend $200 on one in the alley.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:

Get $1000, go spend $200 on one in the alley.

If it was on a rooftop, the price would go down as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Furious Styles wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:

Get $1000, go spend $200 on one in the alley.

If it was on a rooftop, the price would go down as well.

Image

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